Where to place smokes/heat?

Okay, stop that.

Let the alarm company provide the solution, that's what they're paid for.

I feel sorry for the installer coming to your place == you're gonna second guess him every step of the way and follow him around like a puppy dog, aren't ya?

can someone just give me a reasonable answer instead of this Morgan guys insults? if i am buying less than a full complement of smokes/heats (which would be 7+) i would like to maximize the effectiveness of the ones i do buy. since different installers / companies have told me different things (and perhaps with a false motivation) i would like those of you with impatial experience to help me out. thanks!

Where was the insult in my reply?

I would have to concur that Morgan's replay was a bit harsh.

Here are a few of my thoughts:

I woulnd't necessarily duplicate placement of the of the 120VAC with the alarm company's smokes but there should be some overlap with the idea being those are the smokes that, when they go off will summon outside assitance. No one s home, the 120's go off, the place burns to the ground---all the while they're beeping away.

A heat near the furnace area is a good idea, smokes placed in the hallway outside the sleeping spaces and, at least, 1 on each floor. Tops of stairwells. Don't put smoke in unheated attic spaces, etc.

A couple of things to remember:

1) most smokes are listed for 30' spacing in open areas (the detector will detect smoke 30' away, in a timely manner) the spacing actually increases in hallways, in most residential areas you don't need a bunch of smokes.

2) Not sure I would recommend ADT. Whoever you get, ask a few questions before you let them install fire protection in your new home. Are they NICET certified in fire protection systems? What is the lsited spacing for their detectors? (smokes 30' and 135F heats are typically 50'). Is there panel listed for residential fire protection? Ask them to see a copy of their inspection forms (as per NFPA 72, systems must be inspected at least annually). Another good question would be what chapter of NFPA covers residential fire alarms? If they don't answer Chapter 11, tell them to take a walk.

Regards, and good luck--

Jewellfish

snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

they should go right next to the ones the electrician put in and then anywhere else that concerns you - you can never have too many smokes.

resist the temptation to put them in your attic though.

If you already have 110VAC smokes, you can augment them with one at the top of each stairs and one near (but not inside) the furnace room. Stay away from the door to a kitchen or bathroom (with shower or tub) and laundry room.

If you are using Outlook Express:

1. Highlight one of his posts.
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3. Click Block Sender.
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a.. Install smoke alarms on every level of your home, including the basement, making sure that there is an alarm outside every separate sleeping area. New homes are required to have a smoke alarm in every sleeping room and all smoke alarms must be interconnected. a.. Hard-wired smoke alarms operate on your household electrical current. They can be interconnected so that every alarm sounds regardless of the fire's location. This is an advantage in early warning, because it gives occupants extra time to escape if they are in one part of the home and a fire breaks out in another part. Alarms that are hard-wired should have battery backups in case of a power outage, and should be installed by a qualified electrician. a.. If you sleep with bedroom doors closed, have a qualified electrician install interconnected smoke alarms in each room so that when one alarm sounds, they all sound. a.. If you, or someone in your home is deaf or hard of hearing, consider installing an alarm that combines flashing lights, vibration and/or sound. a.. Mount smoke alarms high on walls or ceilings (remember, smoke rises). Ceiling mounted alarms should be installed at least four inches away from the nearest wall; wall-mounted alarms should be installed four to 12 inches away from the ceiling. a.. If you have ceilings that are pitched, install the alarm near the ceiling's highest point. a.. Don't install smoke alarms near windows, doors, or ducts where drafts might interfere with their operation. a.. Never paint smoke alarms. Paint, stickers, or other decorations could keep the alarms from working.

The above is from NFPA.

It would be helpful if you detailed what you mean by "adding an extensive ADT system". My experience with ADT has been pretty decent in the Lower Mainland (Vancouver), but others in the Newsgroup think differently. My definition of "extensive" may be a bit different from what your local ADT rep is quoting.

As for smoke detector placement. The installer must follow the guidelines outlined in NFPA if they're installing a fire detection component to your "extensive system" or he won't be doing you any service. Additionally, heat detectors in your furnace/mechanical room, laundry room, kitchen, and garage may be a smart idea. Is your new home sprinklered?

User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.0.7) Gecko/20060909 Firefox/1.5.0.7,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe)

He's not using MSOLE, you stupid dope. You are hardly the one to give advice on that program anyway, you have not figured out how to send plain text to Usenet.

These are the standards which every installer should live-by and prosper greatly. Or ignore these standards and die-by them and get their hind-qaurters sued off.

Ratchet442 wrote:

First... thanks for all the *great* replies, It basically reaffirmed my decision to go with 3 smokes and 1 heat.

My "extensive" system is 22 windows on the main floor, 4 in the basement, 4 doors, 2 motions, 3 smokes, 1 heat, 1 CO2, 1 Flood, 3 panels, celluar backup, 1 or 2 two-way voice boxes, 1 box for calling into the alarm to check status/arm when out. Might not be extensive for some but for me it is. I interviewed a bunch of companies including ADT, but ADT is undercutting the next lowest at nearly $900 and is including some equipment I didn't even spec for with other companies (because it is non-essential... but nice) such as the two voice and outside call in features. ADT is also going to sell me the system outright (as opposed to their usual lease) and write in the contract they will provide the master unlock code after the contract is up so anyone can mointor the Ademco box *without* having to provide a new master box. It is not an ADT reseller either and I have been talking with the sales folks and the regional sales manager for weeks and they "claim" (and frankly, I believe it) that they are sending one of their best installing teams with more experience then the rest because of the nature and size of this residential install. They fully admitted they would not send certain teams because they would not trust some of the install details I am requesting to them. We'll see how it goes, but frankly they really have been supportive of my questions, have a great install price, and are within 5 dollars of the lowest mointoring cost anyone has offered me.

There are set standards for smoke detector locations and how they are to be powered set by the life safety code. The amount of smokes you mentioned, the way they operate and their locations sound like they meet the code. Monitoring of these devices are a bonus and heat sensors should not be used in place of smoke detectors in these locations. ADT representatives should have known this and if they suggest replacement, deletion and/or relocation, you might want a second opinion from another company. In a fire situation, smoke is the killer and besides, your insurance company is aware of the Life Safety Code.

Sounds like a great system ..... especially coming from ADT. Their expertise isn't usually apparent in residential systems. The only other thing I can think of, that I've found lacking in their residential intallations is that they don't seem particualarly good at using the least obvious sensors. That is, they buy motion detectors, contacts and other sensors and they use the same equipment in commercial jobs as they do in residential. So where someone who does residential might purchace small contacts suited for your particular application and mount them underneath the molding on a casement window, ADT will use a serface mount contact on the top of the molding, where it can be seen because that's the only contacts out of the two or three models that they buy. For instance, it's not too often that a company that does primarily commercial installations, will have recessed contacts as part of their inventory. Yet recessed contacts are a major type of contact usually used on residential.

You might want to get right down to the nitty gritty with them and ask them to show you specifically how they are going to install each sensor on each of your different openings. Have them show you what the motion detectors look like and the smokes. There are some smoke detectors that hang down from the ceiling 3 to 5 inches that a ok for use in commercial. But there are those that are flat (about two inches) to the ceiling which would be more preferable in a home.

I've seen some pretty awful looking commercial components installed in homes by companies that typically do commercial installations. They just don't have the expertise, experience or familiarity with the components that are used by residential experienced installers. The system they install works ok but it should be installed as inconspicuously as possible ..... too.

thanks everyone... ADT (nor anyone else) wasn't suggesting moving/replacing/removing any existing smokes on my 120v system, i was just trying to decide how much to *agument* the system with ADT provides smokes/heats and if perhaps they should simply colocate with existing detectors or be placed elsewhere to further the coverage of the whole house system.

to the last poster... yes my biggest concern with ADT is their knowledge in aestitics when placing this amount of equipment. they have satisfied me as much as possible that one of their "ADT Custom Home" teams is coming to do this since the level of equipment is beyond their normal residental installs. of course the proof will be in the install and we'll have to see...

and it will still (most likely) be lick & stick.

here is the issue at hand guys, and sadly at certain point it *is* a bottom line issue...

i interviewed 4 security companies in my home. all stayed for near or over an hour. 3 were highly recommended independents which per some research had comparible (ie. within 15%) prices to the majors and lower cost monitoring. of the 4 only sales folks were really good IMHO, and that included ADT. one independent salesman was very cocky, telling me "what you HAVE to have" and much of it was actually a sell DOWN tactic to get his system in the price range of what he thought ADT would come in at, instead of what I really needed. i was very clear to all of them i was willing to pay for a complete permiter system and i knew it wouldn't be cheap.

of the 3 that were good 2 recommended wireless sensors (including ADT) although neither was clear on mounting issues for my design of windows and blinds rather both saying their installers "will find a way". the other recommended drilling of my new vinyl windows and voiding the warranty.

the worst issue sadly for me was price. of the 3 i liked ADT was $3400, the other two independents were $4300 and $4900. the cheaper independent was using the same ademco products as ADT and included less systems in the price, for example ADT was including two way voice AND phone control of the system, something that the independent wasn't. the highest price independent (and most recommended) demanded i install 8 fire detectors (despite my home already having 7), had HIGHER monitoring costs than ADT, a 2 times the cost service plan, but superior Elk hardware. one independent has monitoring costing 5 dollars less than ADT while the other was identical.

all and all i was disappointed in the independents. i expected their installation costs to be moderatly higher, the monitoring/service costs to be less, and their presentation to be way above a major national like ADT. in the end the customer service i received from ADT so far, although not perfect, has been the BEST of all 4, the equipment MORE extensive, and the price FAR less for installation and "competitive" for monitoring. while I was entirely prepared to WANT an indpendent system and WILLING to pay a higher installation cost for it... I was not prepared for such a price difference in the face of customer service to date that is inferior to my local ADT office.

i know this isn't the story nationwide and clearly there were more independents i could of interviewed, but at a certain point in time i need a darn system in the house. ;)

Whoa! Are you kidding?

Start over and research home security options in your locale. Something is out of whack here.