Keeping up with Cables in new installation

Yes I agree with the wire colour idea. We use red for powered devices, grey for phone, brown for doors, white for windows. We run 24/8, CAT3 wire to all keypads. Often the end of the keypad wire is run to the adjacent door, thus saving a brown wire run, We use the brown pair of the CAT3 for the door contact, duh! Siren, strobe get individual 18/2, with 18/3 run for power. Ground wire is present if needed, but panels are generally not grounded. Smoke and other supervisory devices get grey wires as well.

Additionally we use standard wrap around wire markers and keep track on a wirelist that is later tranferred to disk and accessible quickly from the office or my home office (thank you PC Anywhere!).

On the wirelest itself is a breif description of the location of the device. Keypads are above light switches unless otherwise noted and when used, motion detectors are in corners, hidden. Glassbreak detector locations vary so much due to different layouts, that there is little standardization, but since I purchased a digital camera, it's easy to relate the wirelist description with the picture, should there be a problem locating a wire. Since DVDs are so cheap, it's no big deal keeping lots of 1 -1.5 Mb pictures around. I have to go to each site to check the prewire anyway, so it's a good use of my time. I also take pictures of speaker prewires so it's easy to see the speaker location after drywall.

Our alarm and audio prewires are buried and this takes the drywaller out of the wire location equation. How many times have you cursed the drywaller for pulling a wire out of the wall in the wrong place? That won't happen anymore.

It is alot of work to keep accurate records, but it pays off in the long run. I don't know about anyone else, but when I sell my accounts, the paperwork and recording keeping will be hard to surpass. I've seen some real poor recording keeping as I'm sure most of you have.

Anyone ever use the inside of the can as the 'wirelist'? I took over an old PC1550 system this week that had this done. I wrote it down on my blank wirelist sheet anyway.....

Just wondering.... is it ethical to keep records, i.e. files including programming sheets and wirelests, of systems that are now monitored by others?

Julian

Ah! Most excellent idea!

| > Ethical to keep records? I think so. I have records of every job I've ever | > done except for a few that got damaged by a roof leak. So what if they | > aren't your client currently...who knows how long they may stay with the | > other company..they might come back. I've had clients quit, go with another | > company the house gets sold to someone new, the new owner calls me because | > that's the decal still on the can...bada bing I get it back. Happens a lot. | >

| > I don't believe in wirelists written in the can. | | Even though there's plenty of paper on the roll? |

The wirelist is mine unless I specifically state otherwise...like in a commercial job where schematics generally stay with the system and are part of the contract.

In a house where we may just prewire only...IF I decide to make a wirelist it's on my dime and I keep it. IF the primecontractor wants to pay me to compile a wirelist or schematic thats a different situation, however they NEVER want to pay for it.

I never trust anyone else's wirelists either, whenever I do a takeover or install on someone else's prewire I always ring it out and make my own list up...and remove all that shitty sticky masking tape or whatever the prewire company decided to write (if they did at all) wire locations on.

| >

| > | > Ethical to keep records? I think so. I have records of every job I've | > ever | > | > done except for a few that got damaged by a roof leak. So what if they | > | > aren't your client currently...who knows how long they may stay with | > the | > | > other company..they might come back. I've had clients quit, go with | > another | > | > company the house gets sold to someone new, the new owner calls me | > because | > | > that's the decal still on the can...bada bing I get it back. Happens a | > lot. | > | >

| > | > I don't believe in wirelists written in the can. | > | | > | Even though there's plenty of paper on the roll? | > | | >

| >

| |

agreed.

Here's a sweetheart deal for ya..Brinks must have an "in" with Realtors and/or home-inspection companies around here. I keep finding their mini decals on my cans on resold homes: Inspected By Brinks - Please call for service. When the homeowner moves in for some stupid reason, even though my lawnsigns and decals are all over the place, they call Brinks from this tiny decal (and probably by verbal prompting from the Realtor). Brinks goes out and tells them they can't work with my system and must replace the entire thing...DUH. THEN the new client calls me. Wierd huh?,,,,all those spiffs going down the drain.

Dunno what they possibly could have "inspected" anyway, they dont have keys to my panels nor would they know what they're looking at half the time anyway. I think this is unethical bullshit.

R.

| > In a house where we may just prewire only...IF I decide to make a wirelist | > it's on my dime and I keep it. IF the primecontractor wants to pay me to | > compile a wirelist or schematic thats a different situation, however they | > NEVER want to pay for it. | >

| > I never trust anyone else's wirelists either, whenever I do a takeover or | > install on someone else's prewire I always ring it out and make my own | > list | > up...and remove all that shitty sticky masking tape or whatever the | > prewire | > company decided to write (if they did at all) wire locations on. | >

| >

| > | >

| > | > | > Ethical to keep records? I think so. I have records of every job | > I've | > | > ever | > | > | > done except for a few that got damaged by a roof leak. So what if | > they | > | > | > aren't your client currently...who knows how long they may stay | > with | > | > the | > | > | > other company..they might come back. I've had clients quit, go | > with | > | > another | > | > | > company the house gets sold to someone new, the new owner calls me | > | > because | > | > | > that's the decal still on the can...bada bing I get it back. | > Happens | > a | > | > lot. | > | > | >

| > | > | > I don't believe in wirelists written in the can. | > | > | | > | > | Even though there's plenty of paper on the roll? | > | > | | > | >

| > | >

| > | | > | | >

| >

| |

Yeah, that's worked for me over the years as well. Every can has my company decal on it, plus two other labels -one giving all my calling information, plus the second decal outlining what my monthly rate is and what it includes. Plus, inside, taped to the can cover is a complete wiring chart showing what has been done and where all the wires go.

If the customer comes back to me, great ! If he doesn't, then the next company that has to service the panel has a complete record to go on saving everyone time and money. I figure the wiring chart is only part of a proper installation and belongs to the homeowner, same as the panel itself. The decals belong to me and are always removed (a clause in my contract)

Very rarely does the homeowner go elsewhere. If he does, it's usually become of his having signed one of these abominable long term contracts in his original house and now he's being blackmailed into taking their service again in the new house.

RHC

I don't do any prewiring anymore; what I stated is in regards to full priced alarm systems in which I have sold the panel to the client on day one - the only way I sell.

Back when I had the time to do prewiring, I kept the wiring list for several reasons. First, no one had paid me for it as you say. Second, if the client eventually came to me, I found that the wiring list had often disappeared for some inexplicable reason, which just made my job a bit longer. But toning doesn't take very long for anyone to do.

These days, I go into a lot of new homes where the prewiring was done by a company where the builder has a "sweetheart" deal with another company (usually an alarmco). There is never a wiring diagram there, even though the empty can is installed, and they have their decals etc plastered all over it. It seems at least locally, there is more money to be made doing prewiring than installing the alarm itself. Most builders do a basic prewire job....all doors, a couple of motions etc and charge the home buyer about $1000 for this !!!!! The alarmco either did it for $200 or sometimes for nothing. And these builders won't allow other independant companies on site quoting all sorts of made up reasons why not (the truth being of course, their sweetheart deal with a local alarmco). Sometimes if the purchaser knows enought to scream like crazy, the builder will relent, but not often....

I usually take out their can and substitute the one that comes with the panel. Anyone need a couple of hundred empty cans ??....:)))

RHC

Wow ! I've never heard of that scam ! I wouldn't have thought that a big company like Brinks would pull such a clearly dishonest sucker play like that. Does Brinks have dealers; I would expect that out of a dealer but not the main company itself.

Frankly, you gotta wonder about the customer in these cases too. Why would he call someone like Brinks unless he is prompted too, what with all your decals and signage everywhere. Makes you wonder if there isn't some sort of kickback scheme in place between Brinks and the realtor. But mostly, I have to wonder how bright the customer is to get hooked in to something like that....

Sometimes I really wonder about customers; how the hell can they let themselves get pulled into these sorts of things (don't answer that...:))

RHC

A few companies in Dallas do that, they aren't really inspecting anything but want you to use their system instead

What to do with those???

Bird houses?

Rivet leather straps to the sides and try to start some sort of weird brief case fad?

Screw them to the wall and use 'em for knick knack displays (or

Sell 'em as knick knack display shelves at the flea market... but glue a bunch of macaroni or sea shells to 'em first.

If there's no lid, cover them with duct tape, line the inside with plastic, pick up some flower seeds to go with them on your way back to the flea market... window boxes...

Sell 'em as is on ebay... "sturdy metal can with lid..." betcha someone bids on 'em.

Well - that's all I could come up with off the top of my head... anyone else?

Tie some on to the rear bumper of a car of a couple Just Married

Poor man's set of skis.

Little coffins for dead cats.

Put one on a railroad track to see what happens.

Put a lot of them on a railroad track to see what happens.

Welp ya know some people kinda fall in love with their realtor and trust everything their told particularly when they are moving in from out of state their realtor is their first "friend"....so they believe anything they're told.

I've run into this Brinks thing at least 4 times this year....I got them all back but it makes me wonder how many I lost/missed.

| > Here's a sweetheart deal for ya..Brinks must have an "in" with Realtors | > and/or home-inspection companies around here. I keep finding their mini | > decals on my cans on resold homes: Inspected By Brinks - Please call for | > service. When the homeowner moves in for some stupid reason, even though | > my | > lawnsigns and decals are all over the place, they call Brinks from this | > tiny | > decal (and probably by verbal prompting from the Realtor). Brinks goes out | > and tells them they can't work with my system and must replace the entire | > thing...DUH. THEN the new client calls me. Wierd huh?,,,,all those spiffs | > going down the drain. | >

| > Dunno what they possibly could have "inspected" anyway, they dont have | > keys | > to my panels nor would they know what they're looking at half the time | > anyway. I think this is unethical bullshit. | >

| > R. | >

| >

| > | > In a house where we may just prewire only...IF I decide to make a | > wirelist | > | > it's on my dime and I keep it. IF the primecontractor wants to pay me | > to | > | > compile a wirelist or schematic thats a different situation, however | > they | > | > NEVER want to pay for it. | > | >

| > | > I never trust anyone else's wirelists either, whenever I do a takeover | > or | > | > install on someone else's prewire I always ring it out and make my own | > | > list | > | > up...and remove all that shitty sticky masking tape or whatever the | > | > prewire | > | > company decided to write (if they did at all) wire locations on. | > | >

| > | >

| > | > | >

| > | > | > | > Ethical to keep records? I think so. I have records of every | > job | > | > I've | > | > | > ever | > | > | > | > done except for a few that got damaged by a roof leak. So what | > if | > | > they | > | > | > | > aren't your client currently...who knows how long they may | > stay | > | > with | > | > | > the | > | > | > | > other company..they might come back. I've had clients quit, go | > | > with | > | > | > another | > | > | > | > company the house gets sold to someone new, the new owner | > calls | > me | > | > | > because | > | > | > | > that's the decal still on the can...bada bing I get it back. | > | > Happens | > | > a | > | > | > lot. | > | > | > | >

| > | > | > | > I don't believe in wirelists written in the can. | > | > | > | | > | > | > | Even though there's plenty of paper on the roll? | > | > | > | | > | > | >

| > | > | >

| > | > | | > | > | | > | >

| > | >

| > | | > | | >

| >

| |

Hehehehe.....damn, that's original ! You get an A+ for originality for sure....

Truth is, I pile 'em up until I can't stand them in my shop anymore. Since I know the business development manager of this firm personally (he actually is my mentor; he helped me get in the business), when I drop off boards that I've unlocked for them, I also bring back a large box of these cans as well.

The few that I do keep, I use to house some of the atrocious Bell wiring arrangements that go into these new homes - you know, where they splice all the phone wires together into a spagetti jungle of wires. Cleans up their mess at least...

RHC

Won't work if you're color blind.

| | | |

True.

Been a long time since you've updated that web eh?

| | | True. |

Oh... Another one. Mount about 2 dozen of 'em to the wall (they have to have lids on 'em. Find about a dozen cheap toys and buy two of each. Spread the toys out in the cans and have the little ones play a big version of the memory game....

Just gotta f> Hehehehe.....damn, that's original ! You get an A+ for originality for > sure....

I can't imagine how someone who's color blind could work to efficiently in this trade.

I'm sure they could compensate on jobs they wired .......... but trying to figure out someone elses work would seem like it would take considerably longer.

Been busy.