How many wires to a device?

Trying to pre-plan for pre-wiring, I have found a number of helpful posts from the group on wire *sizes* for the different devices that are connected to the panel; however, I don't remember any that indicate the *number* of wires that are required.

I know that door/window magnetic breaks require only two, and (I think I know) that keypads and standard PIRs require four. Can someone please educate me on how many wires the more sophisticated sensors, sounders, strobes, etc. require?

I assume that some of these numbers may depend upon the actual model numbers; but since I don't yet know the actual devices, the maximum number of wires for each would be helpful.

Thank you very much for any assistance, David

Reply to
David
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22/4 conductor will work for most devices heavier current drawing devices sirens strobes etc you will want to use 18# How i would prewire a house would be use 2 -cat 5 cables to every keypad posistion which allows for touch screens and any other toys in future and 22/4 every where else even to door contacts incase 1 pair gets hit with nail . you may concider 22/6 to motions if you want an independant tamperswitch or plan on using it to hide a camera
Reply to
nick markowitz

That's how we do it too. 18/2 for sirens & power, 22/4 for everything else. Those two extra conductors to the doors have been lifesavers on more than one occasion.

We like to (but not always) run 12 conductors to keypad locations in houses where we suspect they will want to add protection in the future AND its a big house with keypads in locations that will prove convenient.

What caught us flat-footed was the cellular change-out. we had been in the habit of using 22/4 for the alarmnets. When the GSM's came out with their separate transformers we were hit with quite a few that we couldn't get the power wires to. Then it was a matter of getting with the homeowner to decide which outlet (of the ones we COULD get to) would be the one they wanted us to use. Some of them were pretty upset about the transformer in the guest bedroom or hallway - but not upset enough to call an electrician to install an outlet elsewhere.

Reply to
JoeRaisin

I usually use 22/4 (Stati> How i would prewire a house would be use 2 -cat 5 cables to every

If it's a pre-wire, and you have a good price on a bunch of Cat-5e, it's probably easier (and preferable) to just use Cat-5e for everything - network, phone, alarm, intercoms, video, etc. About the only thing it won't work for is satellite RF or CATV (unless someone has RF baluns? I've not seen them, but I suppose they might exist). You can even get it with different-colored jackets to color-code everything... the beauty of it is, it just gives you so much flexibility in the future.

Reply to
Matt Ion

Many alarm manufacturers specifically state the use of 22/4 for keypads. Elk's M1-Gold is one exception. Cat 5 isn't always recommended although it's use is becoming more widespread. It's always good to run two 22/4's to the keypads. If you know which alarm panel you're going to be installing, it's a good idea to get a-hold of the manual ahead of time so you can anticipate what might be required for wiring before-hand. Always follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

Reply to
Frank Olson

Most powered devices will take four conductors. Some you may want to run six to if you plan to connect a tamper circuit. Not all powered devices have a tamper output.

Reply to
Bob La Londe

always run a quad (telephone wire to every device ) its home run they call. Try to leave a spare or two in the attic for future expansion

Reply to
me

Thats cute but be carefull some panel/keypad dont like UTP cable better have both cat5 and 22/4

and 22/4 every where else even to door contacts incase 1 pair

for the rest all's fine with me!

Reply to
Petem

In addition to what the others have said, Whenever I have the opportunity to run additional wires in a prewire ..... I do it. Additional wires are run from the basement (or wherever the main panel is going to be .... basement is most desireable) to the attic. The "bundle" consists of, 1 fire wire, 4 four wires, 1 #18, 1 12 conductor (Cat3), 1 RG6 coax, 2 Cat5e. Note: I use 12 conductor for keypad runs. These wires allow for most any kind of additional alarm, telephone, network, TV, or long range radio add ons. I lable the wires as Spare, do not use and conceal them. I document where they are located in the customers file . In the future, should I be asked to run addional wires for any of the above services, it's a pretty easy job with no breaking of drywall. If anyone else wants to use them, ..... they gotta find them first!

Additionally, if the client is open to it, I always talk to them about running addional wires for other services but without doing the termination until a later date. During the prewire stage, there's no more less expensive or easier time to do wire runs. Even if you only drill holes and install plastic conduit or some kind of draw string behind the walls so that running wires in the future does not require repainting or new drywall. Computer network, Cable and/or satillite TV, Closed circuit TV, Door cameras, A biggie add on now is surround speakers, left right and rear. Telephone wiring is in the decline with the satillite telephone systems but you should have a few places in the home where an actual hardwired telephone can be plugged in. Run double C5e wires from your external telephone connection to wherever your computer is going to be, for cable telephone hookup with line seizure and a Cat5e to your alarm panel too. Looking way into the future, wire runs for whole house audio might be a consideration but with the strengthening of IP communication I think you'd be better off running 2 Cat5e everyplace place in your home. That's where the immediate future is leading. Above a beyond that, it's fiber optic, probably 10 to 15 years from now.

These wire runs can be just laid in now and leave them concealed behind the walls just for the cost of wire and your time. Take photos of where they are located, print the photos and write the measured distances from known objects like windows, doors and wall outlets, etc so you can easily locate them in the future. If you can do it now, it's a great incentive to add these items in the future because there's no construction involved. And that makes for a high level of the WAF. (Wife acceptance factor)

Reply to
Jim

Great responses, guys; and very helpful! Thank you!

If I may generalize, several of you have (I think) indicated that Cat 5 can be a suitable, or perhaps even preferable, substitute for 22/4. But isn't Cat 5 AWG 24? Thus, if so, is the concensus that one should just use it as is anyway, or to double-strand for assurance?

Reply to
David

Joe, you're over my head here. Could you please explain a bit further?

Reply to
David

There are several manufacturers that specify the use of 22/4 as a minimum with larger gauges needed for longer runs (albeit your average house won't have keypad runs over 1000'). DSC's 1864 manual (for example) states specifically that the "keybus" run should be a minimum

22 AWG quad with no single module more than 1000' (in wire length) from the panel. This is the reason why it's important to get your hands on the install manual for the equipment you've actually decided to use. "Generalizations" won't help you if the manual calls for a specific type of wire (like CAT 5 or twisted shielded pairs).
Reply to
Frank Olson

In most cases, and for practical purposes, you wont find any "noticable" difference between 22 and 24 guage wire. Most motion, glass break or other powered detectors don't draw more than 30/40 milliamps. Some of the most enhanced keypads probably about 100 milliamps. Obviously, the longer the wire run the more resistance in the wire, but there aren't too many houses that are close to 1000 feet long. I've been using 24 guage wire on my keypads for over 25 years. Never one problem. The larger guage wire needs to be used for siren output, AC power input, power runs to long range radio or cellular devices. They should all use no less than 18 guage wire. If you are installing smoke detectors that will activate your alarm system, tqlk to your local fire inspector for more information on wire types and which devices other than the actual smoke detectors themselves that may need to have fire rated wire installed.

By the way, there are a number of manufacturers who now provide additional capabilities through their keypads. Even if the manufacturer that you choose now, only requires four wires, I would suggest that you run a 12 conductor or four 4 wires to each keypad location ..... to allow for future possibilities.

You'll notice that this is a little more complicated than you might have first expected.

Reply to
Jim

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