Gota love your insurance guy.... unless

I don't pay any extra for addional insured and never have.

It's legal if you agree to pay for the coverage. If not, they can't force you to pay for coverage you didn't authorize. The contractor can't give your authorization unless somewhere in that contract you gave him limited power of attorney. Presumably you would not have done that.

If you decline (or even if you don't decline) they have the right to cancel your coverage unless there was a guaranteed term (there rarely is) during which they covenanted not to cancel. Most such policies are entered "at will" similar to employment agreements. Unless something states otherwise they can decide not to continue without even stating a reason.

You can (and probably should) find another provider.

I'd get a new insurance guy ASAP, then call buddy back and tell him to get bent.

Of course, if you really wanted to get nasty, you could also report the incident to whatever controlling body you have there... I don't what it's like where you live, but here in BC, and Canada-wide, insurance is a VERY strictly-regulated industry (I know, my wife's a property and liability underwriter, you should hear some of the broker horror stories she brings home). What that broker (I assume it's a broker) did could possibly be viewed as fraud, or at least a very serious breach of the rules, and could cost him his license.

In my opinion the issue of who pays the $125 would not be my main concern, the real concern of mine would be having an additional insured on my policy especially a general contractor and one that I didn't authorize.

Doug L

Chances are, that your agent is also the agent for the builder or general contractor and he wants to"spread the wealth" as you might say, by adding the builder as an additional insured on your policy, there-by reducing the premiums for the builder or general contractor, who has a much bigger exposure than you.

In effect you're covering the builder or general contractor under your policy's "Joint and Several Liability" clause. Which means you are allowing the builder or general contractor to collect full coverage of a claim, even though you may only be responsible for 5 or 10 percent of the damage.

As an example, the house you are working on catches fire. It cannot be determined who is responsible. But, the builder has been assigned "additional insured" on all the individual sub-contractors policies. He then makes a claim to all of the policies. 10 different claims, 10 different sub-contractors, each payout 10 percent of the entire claim. Your portion of the building according to your bid was 1% of the total cost of the house. Let's say a million dollar home. Your insurance carrier would have to pay $100,000.00. Not what you expected, but it is reality. It's a win-win situation for the builder and his insurance carrier.

And then to top it off...your carrier dumps you.

I'd find a new agent who carries the same insurance company. I'd also notify the Insurance Commissioner in your state. It sounds Bass to me----- I mean fradulent to me.

Norm Mugford

It should be part of your policy anyway. I have never paid extra for an "additional insured" certificate.

Also, anytime you are asked for an "additional insured" certificate, on the certificate, limit your liability to only the exact function you are performing for the contractor, the exact address you are working on and the start and completion date. Don't give them a certificate, as additionally insured, simply showing you (and now they) have liability insurance from 1/1 thru 12/31 through your provider. You could find yourself defending something that happened when you were not even on the job at the time of occurance, the problem had nothing to do with your work, or happened on one of their jobs you had nothing to do with. Naturally, a judge would kick it out, if this were the case, but who needs the hassle and any cost involved. Your insurance company would provide the defense, but you would pay for it in the long run.

Some companies charge for an additional insured certificate and some don't, its something that should be taken into account when selecting coverage, especially if you are in the habit of adding additional insureds to your policy. My policy charges for adding an additional insured, its not a concern to me because I don't add additional insureds to my policy. If a certificate of insurance isn't good enough for someone then I'll decline the job.

Doug L

I feel the same way. I'm in the security business, not the insurance business. I love it when they not only demand to be added as additional insured, but want to specify the language contained in the certificate. I just say no. js

I usually know the contractors that are likely to want one and just add in an extra 100 bucks in the proposal. I'm totally opposed to the process of naming them as additionally insured, but if you want the job you gotta pay the price...well,,, they pay it without knowing it.

As far as a contractor being able to call my insurer and add it directly...no freekin' way would I allow or pay for that...suppose I didn't take the job anyway?

We've even had builders want proof of auto insurance and names and drivers license numbers of everyone in the company that will work on the job. It's bullshit.

| > It should be part of your policy anyway. I have never paid extra for an | > "additional insured" certificate. | >

| >> the real concern of mine would be having an additional insured on my | > policy | >> especially a general contractor and one that I didn't authorize. | >

| > Also, anytime you are asked for an "additional insured" certificate, on | > the | > certificate, limit your liability to only the exact function you are | > performing for the contractor, the exact address you are | > working on and the start and completion date. Don't give them a | > certificate, | > as additionally insured, simply showing you (and now they) have liability | > insurance from 1/1 thru 12/31 through your provider. You could find | > yourself | > defending something that happened when you were not even on the job at the | > time of occurance, the problem had nothing to do with your work, or | > happened | > on one of their jobs you had nothing to do with. Naturally, a judge would | > kick it out, if this were the case, but who needs the hassle and any cost | > involved. Your insurance company would provide the defense, but you would | > pay for it in the long run. | >

| >>

| >> > GUY: Hi we need you to pay for an Additional Insured request or we will | >> > terminate your coverage. | >> >

| >> > ME: What Additional Insured Request | >> >

| >> > GUY: The one for "XYZ customer" you ordered back in August | >> >

| >> > ME: I didnt order anything for "XYZ customer" in August or ever, by the | >> > way who is this "XYZ customer" | >> >

| >> > GUY: I have the notes right here "ABC contractor" orderd the additional | >> > insured for "XYZ customer" to be added to your companies policy | >> >

| >> > ME: So you just added it, without calling me or getting | >> > authurization? | >> >

| >> > GUY: Well it was required by "ABC contractor" | >> >

| >> > ME: Then why didnt "ABC contractor" let me know I needed to order this? | >> > And why didnt you bill me back in August? | >> >

| >> > GUY: Not Sure Ill Call you back | >> >

| >> > Guy Calls Back: | >> >

| >> > GUY: I called "ABC contractor" he said you have a construction | >> > contract | >> > you signed that requires the additional insurance. | >> >

| >> > ME: Fine.... but why do you add this to my policy without my approval | >> > or | >> > knowledge? | >> >

| >> > GUY: You needed it and so you should just pay for it if you dont want | > your | >> > insurance coverage to cancel. | >> >

| >> > ME: Why dont you pay for it you added it without my approval. | >> >

| >> > GUY: I am not going to pay for this.....you need to its onlly 125$ and | > if | >> > you dont your insurance will cancel today. | >> >

| >> > ME: Ok, I guess I have no choice come by and pick up a check. And in | >> > the future dont add anything to my insurance without my knowledge or | >> > signature. | >> >

| >> > Guy: click | >> >

| >> > This is a scaled down version of my phone call but you all should get | > the | >> > idea. I am not sure what this guy was thinking but I dont think he | > should | >> > be able to get away with this. Is this even legal? I guess ill be | >> > shopping for a new insurance Guy. | >> >

| >> > James | >> >

| >> >

| >>

| >>

| >

| >

| | |

Your right Norm, today I found out my agent represents the contractor. The contractor had himself added as well as the owner of the building they are building. I dont mind paying for additional insured, thats not the issue. The issue is my agent allowed someone else to add coverage to my policy.

We cant always refuse to add the additional insured if we want the job. I dont fully understand what additional insured is or what my options are when obtaining this. I guess its time to get some legal advice.

I will be finding a new broker in the very near future though. James

See, that right there doesn't sound right to me... that alone would worth asking someone "in the know" about... another broker, someone at whatever state board there may be... better yet, find out who underwrites the policy and ask them.

FWIW, here was my wife's response to your original post: I would definitely get a new broker.... especially since the insurance companies don't charge extra to put Additional insureds on a policy.... that would be just the brokers fee they are paying for and the only reason the insurance company would cancel , it because they Broker requested it due to "non-payment"

Additional insured means if there is a problem that requires insurance coverage that YOUR insurance will kick in first and cover the prime contractor as well. You're buying insurance coverage for the prime.

| > In effect you're covering the builder or general contractor | > under your policy's "Joint and Several Liability" clause. | > Which means you are allowing the builder or general contractor to | > collect full coverage of a claim, even though you may only be | > responsible for 5 or 10 percent of the damage. | >

| > As an example, the house you are working on catches fire. | > It cannot be determined who is responsible. But, the builder | > has been assigned "additional insured" on all the individual | > sub-contractors policies. He then makes a claim to all of the | > policies. 10 different claims, 10 different sub-contractors, each | > payout 10 percent of the entire claim. Your portion of the | > building according to your bid was 1% of the total cost of the house. | > Let's say a million dollar home. Your insurance carrier would have | > to pay $100,000.00. Not what you expected, but it is reality. | > It's a win-win situation for the builder and his insurance carrier. | >

| > And then to top it off...your carrier dumps you. | >

| > I'd find a new agent who carries the same insurance company. | > I'd also notify the Insurance Commissioner in your state. | > It sounds Bass to me----- I mean fradulent to me. | >

| > Norm Mugford | >

| >

| >

| >

| >

| >

| >

| >

| >

| >> GUY: Hi we need you to pay for an Additional Insured request or we will | >> terminate your coverage. | >>

| >> ME: What Additional Insured Request | >>

| >> GUY: The one for "XYZ customer" you ordered back in August | >>

| >> ME: I didnt order anything for "XYZ customer" in August or ever, by the | >> way who is this "XYZ customer" | >>

| >> GUY: I have the notes right here "ABC contractor" orderd the additional | >> insured for "XYZ customer" to be added to your companies policy | >>

| >> ME: So you just added it, without calling me or getting authurization? | >>

| >> GUY: Well it was required by "ABC contractor" | >>

| >> ME: Then why didnt "ABC contractor" let me know I needed to order this? | >> And why didnt you bill me back in August? | >>

| >> GUY: Not Sure Ill Call you back | >>

| >> Guy Calls Back: | >>

| >> GUY: I called "ABC contractor" he said you have a construction contract | >> you signed that requires the additional insurance. | >>

| >> ME: Fine.... but why do you add this to my policy without my approval or | >> knowledge? | >>

| >> GUY: You needed it and so you should just pay for it if you dont want | >> your insurance coverage to cancel. | >>

| >> ME: Why dont you pay for it you added it without my approval. | >>

| >> GUY: I am not going to pay for this.....you need to its onlly 125$ and | >> if you dont your insurance will cancel today. | >>

| >> ME: Ok, I guess I have no choice come by and pick up a check. And in | >> the future dont add anything to my insurance without my knowledge or | >> signature. | >>

| >> Guy: click | >>

| >> This is a scaled down version of my phone call but you all should get the | >> idea. I am not sure what this guy was thinking but I dont think he | >> should be able to get away with this. Is this even legal? I guess ill | >> be shopping for a new insurance Guy. | >>

| >> James | >>

| >>

| >

| >

| |

Call your insurer and ask them about their policy about adding a named insured. If there are no additional charges involved, then what your "agent" did was tantamount to fraud. If this is the case, then call your "agent" back and advise them that you want your money back or you will be calling in the Sheriff and the State Insurance Regulators. The general contractor (who was aware of the clause) should have requested the insurance rider from *you*, and not your "agent". Your "agent" has absolutely no right to add or delete coverages from your policy without giving you notice. Read the fine print in your insurance contract regarding "notification".

Frank Olson

BTW...you can negotiate this stuff when buying/renewing your policy. This past year, I told my agent if I renew with him I DONT want to pay for additionally insured...he said no problem.

|| > In effect you're covering the builder or general contractor || > under your policy's "Joint and Several Liability" clause. || > Which means you are allowing the builder or general contractor to || > collect full coverage of a claim, even though you may only be || > responsible for 5 or 10 percent of the damage. || >

|| > As an example, the house you are working on catches fire. || > It cannot be determined who is responsible. But, the builder || > has been assigned "additional insured" on all the individual || > sub-contractors policies. He then makes a claim to all of the || > policies. 10 different claims, 10 different sub-contractors, each || > payout 10 percent of the entire claim. Your portion of the || > building according to your bid was 1% of the total cost of the house. || > Let's say a million dollar home. Your insurance carrier would have || > to pay $100,000.00. Not what you expected, but it is reality. || > It's a win-win situation for the builder and his insurance carrier. || >

|| > And then to top it off...your carrier dumps you. || >

|| > I'd find a new agent who carries the same insurance company. || > I'd also notify the Insurance Commissioner in your state. || > It sounds Bass to me----- I mean fradulent to me. || >

|| > Norm Mugford || >

|| >

|| >

|| >

|| >

|| >

|| >

|| >

|| >

|| >> GUY: Hi we need you to pay for an Additional Insured request or we will || >> terminate your coverage. || >>

|| >> ME: What Additional Insured Request || >>

|| >> GUY: The one for "XYZ customer" you ordered back in August || >>

|| >> ME: I didnt order anything for "XYZ customer" in August or ever, by the || >> way who is this "XYZ customer" || >>

|| >> GUY: I have the notes right here "ABC contractor" orderd the additional || >> insured for "XYZ customer" to be added to your companies policy || >>

|| >> ME: So you just added it, without calling me or getting | authurization? || >>

|| >> GUY: Well it was required by "ABC contractor" || >>

|| >> ME: Then why didnt "ABC contractor" let me know I needed to order this? || >> And why didnt you bill me back in August? || >>

|| >> GUY: Not Sure Ill Call you back || >>

|| >> Guy Calls Back: || >>

|| >> GUY: I called "ABC contractor" he said you have a construction | contract || >> you signed that requires the additional insurance. || >>

|| >> ME: Fine.... but why do you add this to my policy without my approval | or || >> knowledge? || >>

|| >> GUY: You needed it and so you should just pay for it if you dont want || >> your insurance coverage to cancel. || >>

|| >> ME: Why dont you pay for it you added it without my approval. || >>

|| >> GUY: I am not going to pay for this.....you need to its onlly 125$ and || >> if you dont your insurance will cancel today. || >>

|| >> ME: Ok, I guess I have no choice come by and pick up a check. And in || >> the future dont add anything to my insurance without my knowledge or || >> signature. || >>

|| >> Guy: click || >>

|| >> This is a scaled down version of my phone call but you all should get | the || >> idea. I am not sure what this guy was thinking but I dont think he || >> should be able to get away with this. Is this even legal? I guess ill || >> be shopping for a new insurance Guy. || >>

|| >> James || >>

|| >>

|| >

|| >

|| || | |