DIY - Sometimes....

Like with two dogs f****ng throw a bucket of hot water on them. That usually seperates them.

You were sick long before I came around.

Sounds like a plan. We're looking forward to it.

I thought it was cold water... Ah well... When in Florida...

Wellllll! I guess if you can jump in ..... I will too.

You look at it that way. Everyone else in the world would ask .... why in HELL would ANYONE offer only a month to month contract? And I DO mean EVERYONE. So that says that it's YOUR erroneous premise of offering month to month contracts and free service that puts you in the position of not wanting to service non monitored accounts. If you got paid for service calls and/or had term contracts, you wouldn't have these things as "reasons" to have a problem with non monitored accounts.

Annnnnnd yet you promote the fact that physical security is so very very important and should always be employed. And you've said that you were in the physical security business .......only, for years before you offered alarm systems. So what would be wrong with having just one more deterrent like a local alarm system? Seems rather duplicitous to me that on one hand you say that you're so magnanimous with regard to your clients and won't lock them into a long term contract, even though it's detrimental to the value of your company, but you don't seem to have a problem turning away people who don't want to pay you for monitoring.

And I'd imagine at about this point you've occasionally wondered how much more you could be making on service calls, ummmmm that is if you didn't have another source of income for yourself and if you really wanted to give your son a business that had some greater worth.

Sure ..... in the same way that the people who get the "Free" alarms installed. There are always people out there looking to get something for nothing and by giving away a piece of the equity of your business to every customer, that's what they get. Something for nothing. Of COURSE they see the logic to it ..... It's just that they don't know what you're giving up to give them what you do.

Sorry Bob, you didn't ask ..... but I thought you'd like to be reminded......-

But who's sick NOW ..... is the important thing.

You're goin Bye bye ..... soon!

=2E...snip rest for brevity.....

RHC: Nope ! Dead wrong ! There are lots of companies that offer month to month terms. They may ask for one year payment up front (which makes it pretty much like a one year term), but the contract term is month to month. Maybe not in your area, but becoming much more common in ours (while before I used to be the only one....)

As far as servicing non monitored accounts, it is a matter of time resources as much as anything else. With a large customer base ( too large actually), I much prefer to maintain my allegiance to my RMR paying customers. Same thing when I get asked to do video, telephone wiring, cat 5 wiring, or simple pre wiring, I turn it away - no time !

RHC: I don't know why I bother to even answer such a weird comparison, but I will on this subject. If you truly believe that physical security is only an "optional extra" that goes with the alarm, then you are either deceiving your customers or you are a total amateur, regardless of number of years in the business !! And on the matter of the alarm, it's the "option" of the two - electronic versus physical. But if you do put in an alarm as part of the customer's security plan, you do it correctly (which means it's always monitored), or you don't do it at all - period ! And as I said a bit later in the thread, yes, a local alarm has some merit, but IMO and in our area with the noise bylaws, not much. Frankly, alarms of all sorts are overrated....they are one more thing that discourages a thief from coming up to the premises, and they limit the time inside (thereby the losses), but they don't stop anyone from coming in...

RHC: The service that is included are such things as batteries and contacts for door and window changes. Any other actual physical work is charged at local rates. Service is "something that goes wrong", and is "free" kind of like the alarm system sold as "free" ...it's bundled in the rate along with the warranty. Only my rate structures don't screw the client as do the rates of the ADT's and Brinks of the world....

RHC: What I appear to be "giving away" is nothing more than providing a bundled service to my clients and at rates which are a FAR better deal than say the Borg would give. And as far as the equity in the business, I know PRECISELY what the accounts are worth...to the dollar. And your whole premise (in my case anyway) is also dead wrong !

I've said all I'm going to say because I really don't give a damn what a person such as you thinks. That clear enough for you ?

I guess you're trying to say that .... in the land of the blind, one more blind person doesn't matter. (just kidding)

I can understand it from that point of view. Which I sometimes do also. But, for instance. Just recently someone called me as a referral. As the story turned out .....the man was beginning a new job and would be traveling now. They'd had an old Radionics panel put in long time ago. Had no information on it, didn't even remember how to arm it. Never used it from the day they moved in. They didn't want monitoring just wanted to turn it on. I said I couldn't turn it on because I didn't do Radionics, and I didn't have the programer or dealer codes necessary to unlock it. So even for a local system I'd have to change out the equipment. They asked how much.

Main Panel, four kepads, two inoperable motion detectors, 3 old smoke detectors, some dislocated contacts, replace glass shock sensors that had been cut to replace some windows. Add a motion detector in the basement, wire the new windows and doors that had been added in the basement apartment, replace an old back up power supply, test every single audio glass break detector (one in every room except for shocks on bath windows). Job was close to $3000.00. Warrenteed for a year and I'll gladly service it. From my point of view, I've got a trouble free account with no false alarm reports going to police. And the main thing is, I knew I would get a call to monitor it or at the least I was going to get some referrals out of the job I did for them because I gave them exactly what they wanted, which ( I'm guessing) no one else would.

I guess you'd turn it down .... huh?

Where did I say it was optional? One of the things I do on a survey it to point out lack of double keyed dead bolts, poor outdoor lighting, accessable openings .... always ask about fire extinguishers too. I didn't get here by luck.

My point was, you sold physical security, but didn't NOT sell it if they didn't have an alarm. Now, ( I think you've said) you wont sell an alarm unless they have physical security, and then here add that you wont sell an alarm unless it's monitored. So uniquely enough, you infer that physical security alone is better than physical security plus a non monitored alarm system which logically is not true.

That sounds like the AHJ and their asinine rules about fire alarms. If a little mom and pop store wants to put in a smoke detector or two in their store attached to their burg panel, the fire marshal says no, ya can't do that. You have to put in a whole seperate panel, pull stations, heat detectors, two phone lines, 24hour check-in Blah blah blah! Yeah sure. It's better to have no fire alarm than some form of detecton. As a matter of fact, based on your logic, they shouldn't even put in local smoke detectors.

So if someone said they wanted a non monitored alarm system with an inside siren, along with physical security, you wouldn't install it? Around here, hardly anyone puts up outside sounders anymore. The logic is, since no one ever responds to a siren nowdays anyway, the important one that you want to hear the siren is the intruder. What better place to put it then, but inside the house where they can hear it. Also, obviously, the importance of an inside location is increased with a fire alarm.

Well if you get right down to it .... anyone with a purpose can get through any kind of physical security you could provide too. Ever have a house broken into with a chain saw? Do you fortify attic gable vents, or pull down attic stairs or ceilings in all rooms accesable from the attic ? Do you fortify the panels on an overhead garage door and the all the garage windows and/or fortify the drywall between the house and the garage? Do you fortify all the panels in a door so that they can't be kicked or cut through? Obviously not. Most people wouldn't want to pay for it, look at it or live with it in their face every day and the possibilities of someone going to all that effort to get in, is not likely.

Like wise, most alarm systems don't cover every single opening or possible point of entry but the same as with fortifying the most obvious points with physical security, ........ alarm systems do the same thing. Each point covered/protected, being one more thing in favor of acting as a deterrent. Monitoring simply lets the people know that something has already occured.

Now ...... As you said above .... and I quote

"Frankly, alarms of all sorts are overrated....they are one more thing that discourages a thief from coming up to the premises, and they limit the time inside (thereby the losses), but they don't stop anyone from coming in..."

So from your lips .... a monitored alarm system isn't going to stop anyone ...... and likewise ........ obvioulsy no more than an NON monitored alarm system. Then what the hell is the difference whether you install it with or with the monitoring ? The perp has no idea whether it's monitored or not. .......... So what's the big thing about not installing a non monitored alarm system if it isn't solely for the fact that you want the RMR? Which puts you right in the same category as all those greedy people you accuse of only wanting to scam their customers with long term contracts.

So, ..... you only contract month to month, but you know they're going to stay with you as long as you give them good service. Your ploy of "saying" they can leave you at any time is quite empty, as a matter of fact, because both you and I know that you WILL provide them good service and that you WILL therefore keep the account. So it's not that you're really risking anthing at all, it's all in what perspective you've provided to the client to value in the relationship. " You can leave anytime you want" That makes him feel good but you know that you're not going to lose him because of anything that you do. My customers get the same options. Anyone can leave when ever they want. ( I've only just recently gave one person a hard time for specific reasons and they knew they were wrong and paid off the balance of the contract.) Under similar circumstances you would have lost out entirely on a lot of hard work. I contract for longer periods, but,unlike you, (in spite of what myth someone has spun you) I am, in FACT, acquiring equity in my business, and, same as you, providing the service my clients want and expect, to add to the value of my company.

Well ....well.... well. I'm really glad to hear that Bob. At least there's some hope on the horizon. The impression that you've given all these years is that all follow up service on an installation is free forever. I mean, even what you're doing isn't normal and, in my opinion, has got to really exacerbate it's self, with useless minor calls for piddly stuff that you wouldn't normally be called for, if they had to pay for it. But ...... you're "free service" that's not really free ............ doesn't that again put you somewhat in the category of the companies that you often deride for being ummmmm less than honest? I mean, not alot ...... just sorta?

Sorry Bob, but people are people and as much as they'll tell you one thing today, when it gets right down to the cash on the table, you know damn well with the final line is going to be. "If you had contracted accounts, you'd have gotten a lot more for them"

Obvioulsly not.

You did reply.

We did something similar. I offered a one or three year initial term with the installation. The first year was included in the price of the install. After that they paid annually but they could terminate at any time and receive a pro-rated refund of the remaining months. The net effect was the same as a month-to-minth agreement. The difference was if the client opted for a 3-year term we would guaranty the rate for three years. Most people opted for a yearly agreement.

There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, since your RMR customers are paying for service you owe them that allegiance.

You can ignore that nonsense. Jiminex is constantly looking for something about which to whine. Not even he believes his drivel. Well, OK. Maybe by now he's convinced himself.

It's more likely both.

His whole premise is wrong in all cases, Bob.

:^)

Heh heh heh heh!

Ya have to forgive me Bob, but I just can't but stop and chuckle when we have a good dialog going, (which I know you love) and you can't respond just because you don't like me for what I believe to be the justly deserved retribution I take out, on your zealot friend. I guess I just can't seem to understand how you can "ignore" all of the things that son of a bitch has done to people through the years, but you can't ignore what I give back to him. Sigh ...... Oh well! Toodles!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)

RHC: Yeah, exactly...whatever works for you in your particular environment. I have noticed quite a difference from area to area on how alarms are sold and promoted.

RHC: It has not as much to do with wanting or not wanting to assist people with non monitored systems when it comes right down to it. It's mostly about managing time resources.

RHC: He does seem at times to spin a convoluted string of logic. However, most of his efforts seem to be towards continuing his hate mongering. I have no wish to involve myself in continuing a dialogue that promotes that in any way. He can believe whatever he wants - it has zero effect on me.

Apparently that's all he has. Think about it. He spends every spare moment on a Usenet newsgroup, posting hatred, lies and abuse. That is what he has done for what -- 9 or 10 years now?

Same here. What a wasted life. If he wasn't so despicable it would be sad, really. Oh, well. C'est la vie.

On Jan 12, 3:48=EF=BF=BDpm, "Robert L Bass" wrote:=

Heh heh heh heh heh! If that were true, the very fact that you've been here to witness it says .......

You're such a stupid ego driven f*ck, you can't even get out of your own way to figure out that you've just included and labled yourself what ever it is you think of me.

Heh ha ha ha ha ha!

What a stupid f****ng asshole you are.

Yeah isn't it a shame? I mean, out of about twenty or so regular participants in this Newsgroup and you're the only one that most everyone points to as the instigator and disruptor and that is not despicable.

Yep ..... ego sure has it's advantages. Because of it ...as stupid and arrogant as you are ..... you just can't be convinced, regardless of the number of objectors, that you are the nasty bastard that has disrupted every group you've ever participated in, including this one. You ignore all the the things you've done to people through the years as if you have a right to do what ever you want to people with all immunity and they have no right to complain or react, without you claiming that THEY are the instigators. You're corrupt. You're a sick and demented son of a bitch and I will continue doing what ever I want here, the same as you do. If you don't like it, go f*ck yourself and then drop dead. But you'd better hurry.

Convoluted? I guess that means you don't have an answer.

Ummm I don't see anything that I said to you in our dialog that promoted any "hate mongering" So what exactly is it that you don't want to get involved with ..... not being able to support your reasons on the subject we were discussing?

Oh well .... I understand.

Toodles!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We did someone imminent. I offered an one or three year initial term with the installation. The first year was obeyed in the price of the melt. After that they paid revoltingly but they could terminate at any time and remove a pro-rated refund of the constricting months. The net effect was the same as a month-to-minth agreement. The difference was if the biorobot opted for a 3-year term we would guaranty the rate for three years. Most women opted for an yearly agreement.

There's somebody anorexic with that. In fact, since your RMR crocodiles are paying for service you tempt them that allegiance.

You can respond that nonsense. Jiminex is fallaciously looking for ever about whose to shut up. Not even he emerges his drivel. Well, OK. Maybe by now he's embraced himself.

It's more usably both.

His whole premise is ridiculous in all cases, Bob.

:^)

Sounds like a plan. We're looking forward to it.

You were significant chronologic before I came around.

That works. We're not going to Carnaval this year so we'll be in Florida at least until April or May. How impulsive will you be in Bradenton? If you like, come explore with us. There's plenty of room for you and your sweetheart.

Same here -- wifi throughout the house, even out by the newsreader. :^)

We did anything productive. I offered an one or three nanosecond initial affirmation toward the installation. The first Year was verified in the price of the increase. After that they paid extremely but they could terminate at any time and skyrocket a pro-rated refund of the commemorating Years. The net foundation was the same as a millennium-to-minth injection. The incident was if the terrorist opted for a 3-stoned age rascality we would guaranty the rate for three stone ages. Most men opted for an yearly decade.

There's anybody ceremonial regarding that. In song, since your RMR animals are paying for doctrine you defect them that allegiance.

You can listen that nonsense. Jiminex is cuddly looking for everything about whose to unshackle. Not even he teases his drivel. Well, OK. Maybe by this month he's kicked himself.

It's more likely both.

His whole premise is fallen in all cases, Ratana.

:^)