DIY - Sometimes....

The funny thing is, although we deal almost exclusively with DIYers, I rarely get calls from people with RadShak systems. I get a fair number of calls from folks who have bought homes with existing systems in them. Usually they've tried to get their systems serviced by a local alarm company but aren't interested in monitoring. Since most alarm companies won't service a non-monitored system, they choose to DIY. Those tend to be the most difficult clients for us since they're not really DIYers. Most of the time someone who is a little handy with tools and willing to spend a weekend or two can easily learn to install his own system.

Actually for me too. I get a number of calls from folks who have moved into a home where we installed a system for a previous owner. I politely tell them, "We charge a full one hour service call to come out, check the system, train you on how it works, and bring a spare user manual or print out a copy for you. If you go on monitoring service with us we will waive the cost of the initial service call. If there is anything wrong with your system that requires materials or labor in excess of one hour you will have to pay for that in either case." Their next few sentences always tell me what I am dealing with.

An amazing number think we should come out and service the system, run copies of user manuls and alarm information, and train them on it without being paid at all.

This little bit right here is exactly what I need to say to them to save myself a ton of headaches:

"We charge a full one hour service call to come out, check the system train you on how it works and bring a spare user manual or print out a copy for you. If you go on monitoring service with us we will waive the cost of the initial service call. If there is anything wrong with your system that requires materials or labor in excess of one hour you will have to pay for that in either case."

I never ever waive the service call for somebody who has learned to, "beef," or who tries to play manipulation games. While its probably to late in their lives to try behavior modification I still believe its wrong to reward bad behavior.

If I installed it I will gladly service it no matter how old or how many owners the premise has gone through, but I don't work for free. They can pay for a service call or they can go on service. I write the waived service call onto the contract as waived in exchange for minimum one year contract. If they cancel early I bill them for the initial service call. Some try that. Pay one month service and then cancel to get out of the cost of a service call.

What I suspect you are getting as your "more difficult" clients are those who refuse to pay for service or monitoring, and yes there are many companies who will not service a system they are not currently monitoring, but I suspect that is not all of what you are seeing no matter what they actually say.

There are some similarities with online sales, except that we don't charge for our time -- just the merchandise. We frequently get calls from people who've tripped an alarm that was installed by a previous tennant or owner and don't know how to shut it off. If I know the system and they sound real I walk them through disabling it, remind them that their smoke detectors may be disabled, too, and suggest they contact a local alarm company for service. Very few of these calls are from people with DIY skills or inclinations. If they want to handle it themselves I provide parts and/or manuals as needed but most don't.

A lot of "service" calls come from people who think we are Napco, Honeywell or whatever. They search online for the manufacturer but our link often comes up first (gotta love Google) so they call. If all they need is a manual I email one to them. It's no big deal. I have quite a few on my server and links to hundreds more on our vendors' servers. Since going out to service their alarms isn't an option (half the time they're calling from Texas or Idaho it seems), I don't mind helping out a bit. You never know when it may turn into a sale down the road. Of course, for a local alarm company "you never know... down the road" isn't goiong to pay for thecost of sending a tech out.

That's fair and reasonable -- far better than many other companies might do. If they won't accept that you're better off not dealing with them.

So Jiminex won't be getting much help from you, eh? :^)

When I owned a small alarm company we would service any system we installed during the warranty period (I gave five years in the early days but later cut it back to two), even if a new owner moved in. We got a lot of new monitoring contracts that way. After warranty or if someone else installed it, service calls were paid by the hour. Like you though, if they signed up for monitoring the basic service visit to test, connect, teach and sign up was free.

I don't disagree with you. Unreasonable people rarely admit they've jerked the previous contractor around. But there are enough calls from folks who say they've been screwed by the local company or from folks who can't get service without signing a multi-year monitoring agreement that I know that happens a lot, too. Even here in ASA numerous alarm techs say they won't service any alarm unless it's monitored by them. That's their right, of course. They shouldn't have to do business with anyone unless they want to. For me it's a plus because many of those clients search online for support.

I'm sure everyone "sounds real" on the telephone. Sure Bass... Every thief should have your number memorized. "I'm going to break... errmm... enter my newly purchased house but the previous owner left the system "armed". How do I disable it??" Heard from "Elvis" lately?

You frequently use "most" and "many" when you denigrate installation companies. I find that "most" and "many" alarm service companies charge a reasonable rate for service. "Most" people understand that it costs money to roll a service truck to their premises and expect to be charged a "reasonable amount". As long as they agree to the price quoted over the phone I have no problem servicing a local alarm system. Of course, this kind of information doesn't interest you in the slightest because it goes against the Bass-ic Principle of Alarm DIY.

Jim doesn't need Bob's help... Or yours. You on the other hand don't have a problem stealing his installation methods and fobbing them off as your own...

You mean like any other alarm company out there??

Well duh-hhh!

Name "one" of the "numerous" that post here that won't service a local system and provide the Google link.

RHC: Uh....not to jump in to the middle of this pissing contest, but I won't work on a non monitored system for any reason - period!!

Why not?...for several reasons..

1- My business model is not to sign parties to anything other than a month to month contract. So if they want their local system serviced, I do it, and one month later they leave me ? 2- Local alarms are next to useless and I won't waste my time and someone's money fixing a local system. 3- With too many accounts now, I reserve my limited time and energy for servicing my RMR paying customers.

I gladly help people when they call me, but I simply won't waste my time (even billable time) on a local system. Luckily, virtually everyone I deal with sees the logic in having their alarm monitored properly, especially when it comes bundled with service and 100% warranty and all at a reasonable market price !

Sorry Frank, but you asked.....

No problem there, Bob. You're under no obligation to service a non-monitored system. Most other alarm companies won't either. FTR, it's not a contest. I post what I know and what I believe. Olson posts... well, urine. :^)

I understand your approach and it's different from most in that you don't insist on a long-term contract. You try to keep your customers by servicing them well instead of an air-tight contract. The reality is that your approach should act as a filter -- the good people stay with you while the cheapskates go away. This is a good thing. :^)

We disagree on that point, Bob. IMO (and that's all it is: my opinion), most thieves will run off right away when they hear a loud, exterior siren. They don't know if the police have been called but they do know that anyone within earshot is likely to be paying attention. Obviously, in high crime areas and some sparsely populated places that's not true, but in the kind of neighborhoods I worked in (primarily middle class to affluent residential) for over

20 years it certainly was.

That's my opinion about burglar alarms. Fire is a different story. If a fire erpupts and the homeowner is fast asleep or not around, the central station can often get the fire department out in time to save lives or property.

Agreed. From the standpoint of the alarm company, monitored accounts are worth far more effort than local alarms. There is no reason why you shoould have to service an alarm that only pays for the time when the same time can be spent on an RMR generating account.

I know. I never forgot the time you made several international phone calls to help me out on a system with which I wasn't familiar. Remember that guy -- a doctor in California IIRC.

That last part if one of the best reasons an alarm user ought to consider a professionally installed alarm. When the company provides effective, reasonably priced service as part of the deal it's worth the expense. The problem is that for every company like yours there are at least a dozen Jiminexes who'll gladly gouge the client for all they can get and two dozen "authorized dealers" who haven't a clue what customer service means.

He wasn't really interested in an answer -- just whining.

2- Local alarms are next to useless and I won't waste my time and

RHC: In our locale, exterior horns are strictly forbidden. A homeowner with one can be charged if such a thing ever started to blare. As such, alarms here ONLY have interior horns, which would serve to wake up the homeowner in the event of a nighttime robbery (also quite rare here). In the case of a fire, the alarm smoke detector would at least wake up the homeowner to hopefully get him out of the house before smoke overcomes him. So, yeah, local systems do serve a limited purpose I suppose, but it seems to me, installing only a local system is a bit like buying a luxury car and then equipping it with cheap tires and a tiny engine.

I give my clients a complete rundown, including pictures, of the huge investment in equipment, people and software that makes up a professional monitoring station, and they quickly realize that the hardware I install in their home is only a small part of their total security picture.

But...hey...could be I've also become swayed by the "siren song of RMR"....:))

Wow, Bob! That sounds like a central monitoring station wrote the law. :^)

In your situation, I completely agree.

The thought never crossed my mind. Based on what I know of you, I figure you do pretty much what you believe is best for the customer. I try to do the same thing, but from a different perspective and with a very different set of circumstances. Bear in mind I'm not opposed to monitoring. I just don't believe it's essential in certain situations. If a customer asks for it I refer them to 911Alarm or NextAlarm since both seem to do a good job at a much more reasonable cost than these other characters charge.

I installed my own system about a year ago. Never had a false alarm so was somewhat surprised when it went off while I was outside gardening. My wife had accidentally set it off using her key fob. Unfortunately my key fob had recently been run over and the disarm key on my wifes fob picked that moment to fail. Had to work out how to disarm it using the panel. Have you ever tried reading the Visonic instruction manual while the alarm is going off right next to you!

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Never install a siren near a keypad, I always say.

A central monitoring station wouldn't care where your siren is, the local city council might

RHC: Well honestly Bob, I don't think I am any different than the vast majority of small and medium companies out there (and on this newsgroup). They all (I believe) try to do the best for their customers. In our industry there seem to be four categories of companies...1- the outright thieves (thankfully in the minority)...2- the vast majority of honest companies just trying to make a living but at vastly different price levels...3- the big, largely uncaring companies usually only concerned about the bottom line,....and 4- the outright scammers and deceptively opportunistic marketeers.

Frankly, I'm glad at this point that the RMR IS there. My son came down with infectious mononucleosis just before Christmas, and although he is now well, victims of this virus remain totally useless with no energy for months to follow. So I have had to cancel all new installations until after I return from Florida in April, since he is only able to do the intermittent service calls that come in, but nothing more strenuous, while he looks after our existing customer base. In this area, there are very few quality independent alarm installation contractors available that I could use, and any that become available are quickly sucked up by the big companies. Nor do I trust many of them to work to my standards frankly.. So bottom line, without that huge cheque each month from 1000 plus monitored customers, I wouldn't be able to carry the business forward !

They say bad things happen in three's...that leaves one to go....:((

They know that, Collin. Olson attacks everything I say. He couldn't care less whether I teach 50,000 people how to service their own alarms. It's all about posting flames for him and a few others. You can pretty much ignore him and miss very little of value.

companies...1- the outright thieves (thankfully in the minority)...2- the vast majority of honest companies just trying to make a living but at vastly different price levels...3- the big, largely uncaring companies usually only concerned about the bottom line,....and 4- the outright scammers and deceptively opportunistic marketeers.

I agree with you, Bob, though there are proably a higher percentage of thieves and scammers in the newsgroup than in the alarm community as a whole.

Sorry to hear that, Bob. I know what you mean, too. My other brother (not Michael) came down with mono when we were teens and he's been useless ever since. :^)

Hmm. Are you posting from down here now? I was thinking of suggesting we get together this year. You up for a ride? I might be able to take a run up your way (Florida, not Canada) if you haven't the time to hit Sarasota.

That's the biggest problem. I lucked out when I hired one particular guy way back when. He stayed with us for 18 years and his work was impeccable. He an his brother bought us out when I sold the business.

Jiminex just announced he's moving to Canada? :^)

RHC:No not yet. I arrive in Florida 5 Feb but won't be down your way (Bradenton) until after 18th of March. If you're around, we can get out on the bikes for a ride...yeah, I'd like that. Gotta see that Suzuki bomber you've got...that's a real piece of work.

This year I will have a high speed internet connection so posting will be much easier than dial up as it was last year.

That works. We're not going to Carnaval this year so we'll be in Florida at least until April or May. How long will you be in Bradenton? If you like, come stay with us. There's plenty of room for you and your sweetheart.

Same here -- wifi throughout the house, even out by the pool. :^)

Actually there's only one. He frequently spams the Group with useless HTML code and a "line card" that spans everything from "soup" to "salt water lures". He's also responsible for posting several really entertaining installation fairy tales. He lives in Sarasota, Florida and goes by the name of Bass. He's well known to USENET for trolling several Groups promoting his "online store". He has admitted to having "personal bias" on almost every manufacturer he represents, which basically means his "preference" is that you shop *his* store where the "service" is shoddy as all too many have discovered.

Thirty complaints for a small "home based" business. That's actually "criminal" Bass, but then, we all know your record, don't we??

RHC: That is very kind of you but we have this ongoing "exchange" with friends of ours. They visit us in Panama City Beach for a week and we visit them for a week in Bradenton after our stay is over. But I do appreciate the kind offer. I will get over for that ride we talked about though...and maybe a couple of those burgers you brag about...:))

You girls wanna take this to e-mail? You're making the rest of the group sick.