CP-01

Following is the wording as regards the user manuals.

"4.6.1. Add a note to Quick Reference that user manuals should contain the following statement, or one similar: 'There is a communicator delay of 30 seconds in this control panel. It can be removed, or it can be increased up to 45 seconds, at the option of the end user by consulting with the installer.'"

Note that CP-01 does not state that the delay itself is mandatory. It only requires that it be at least a programmable option and that the option be activated as part of the default settings.

Someone was actually thinking when this was drafted. Instead of throwing the entire burden of deciding how to implement it, SIA wants the manufacturers to inform the end user and include him/her in the decision making process. I think this is good because it enlists the end user in false alarm prevention. Since user error is the greatest single cause of false alarms, it only makes sense to get them involved in reducing the problem.

As to the dialer delay period (CP-01 calls it an "Abort Window"), it applies to all non-fire zones. The minimum time, when used, is

15 seconds. The maximum is 45 secondsand the default setting is 30 seconds. The standard bows to NFPA regarding fire zones. You can disable the abort window on any or all zones of a particular type if desired. The control panel standard only requires that it be available in the panel.

BTW, if you are referring to a specific panel, that may differ somewhat from the SIA standard of which I am speaking.

It depends on the panel, Honeywell does allow removing the dialer delay but you have to jump through hoops to do it, DSC has a minimum 15 seconds that cannot be removed. GE/ITI has always had a built-in dialer delay whether or not you implement it.

New versions of the GE/Caddx panels have it minimum 15 seconds.

I think dialer delays are a really stupid idea. The only reason CP-01 requires them is that some companies are still not using cancel signals. A dialer delay doesn't do anything a cancel signal doesn't do, and the fact that no signal is transmitted with a dialer delay causes customers to think their alarm didn't work. It generates calls for service. With a cancel signal, the operator can tell the customer that the alarm did go off, but wss turned off right away.

Playing "find the control panel" in a strange 10,000 square foot house can be time-consuming for a service tech, and obviously isn't feasible for a burglar. But consider a smaller home, especially one with a self-contained control panel/keypad/sounder: the noise leads the burglar right to the panel.

And here's a true story about a job I took away from another company after the place got robbed. Burglars pried open the front door of a computer store, starting the entry delsy. They then ran to the back of the store, up a flight of stairs, and destroyed the Alarmnet radio before the entry delay expired. Obviously, they knew exactly where the equipment was. but that's the point: sometimes, the bad guys know stuff like that. Giving them extra time to work is not a good idea, and it doesn't prevent any false alarms that couldn't have been prevented with a cancel signal.

- badenov

Many police departments will not "cancel" the dispatch which is why a cancel signal isn't always the best solution

burglarized

this can be turned off with NXV2

As usual, this idiot has deliberately misconstrued what I said. I don't like dialer delays because they give the thief more time to possibly attack the system. I believe that a well-planned, well-executed alarm installation operated by a well-trained end user should never cause false alarms. Unfortunately, with idiots like Worthy pushing "security" systems on unsuspecting customers, there will always be a false alarm problem.

Amen.

True. However, since neither the cancel signal nor the dialer delay are required to be operative, the problem remains unsolved. CP-01 includes some very good ideas to reduce false alarms. IMO dialer delays are not one of them.

Sadly, many of the "professionally" installed systems we took over have the keypoad on a wall next to the primary entry door (usually near the driveway) and the control panel on the other side of the same wall inside a closet. I've relocated dozens of panels that were stupidly installed like that.

The absolute worst was installed by ABC (their reall name) Security of CT. It was in a hardware store in Kensington, CT. The control panel was attached to the back of a pegboard inside the front display window where anyone passing by on the outside could see it and the big, ugly ABC sticker on the panel door.

We found most of the zone wiring on that installation had been shunted out by ABC's service "technicians" (I use that word very liberally here) when they were unable to find swingers in their poorly installed foil and other sensors.

After having the client sign a written description of the problems, I pulled the panel, keypads and the ridiculously inadequate siren (about as loud as an alarm clock) and put them in a box for ABC. The customer said that he had been unable to arm the system for weeks and ABC had not sent out a technician so he was cancelling with them.

We installed a complete new system. None of the "professional" system ABC had installed was salvagable. Shortly after we finished the job I got a call from the owner of ABC. He was livid, threatening a tortious interference suit, etc. I told him I had taken photos and documented how the system wasn't working and that I had a signed letter from the customer detailing all of the problems he'd had with ABC.

That was the last we heard of ABC until the next time I took over one of the abominations these people called a "professional security system."

Unfortunately, there are way too many alarm comnpanies pushing these "all-in-one" systems. A fair number of these so-called "authorized dealers" use them as stock in trade. I believe in offering a comprehensive plan of protection that protects all movable or breakable perimeter openings, backed up with glass breakage sensors and motion detectors. With a little patience and a modicum of tool skills a DIYer can learn to install such a system himself, saving from

1/2 to 3/4 of the cost and avoiding multi-year monitoring contracts at inflated prices.

Speaking of monitoring service, most consumers don't even realize how inexpensive it is. The vast majority of independent alarm dealers farm out their monitoring to 3rd party vendors. The cost to the alarm company varies between $2 and ~$7 a month per contract. They then resell the service for anywhere from $20 to upwards of $40 a month. Nice markup.

Thank you.

js

Regardless of the version, you can turn it off in sensor characteristics programming however that's as much of a pain in the ass as turning it off in Honeywell panels, besides the current GE panels will be gone in about a year and be replaced by panels that do not allow disabling

de nada

"Robert L Bass" wrote in a weak message with attempts at being insulting:

Hardly

And I believe that the above shows it is highly improbable that in 15-30 seconds there will be enough time to do that. But it really doesn't matter now, does it, since it is "the standard". Greater minds than you, along with mountains of independent study from well recognized industry experts, seem to think it is acceptable. It is thinking like yours that has gotten the problem to where it is today. If there would have been standards set years ago, it would have stopped the people that think they are smarter than everyone else (hmmm) from setting systems up to the point that made the customer fail. Like training them over the phone for instance. Where did your "800" number go anyway? Getting too expensive?

by a well-trained end user

That is a universal belief but yet the industry, law enforcement and the public still are having a false alarm problem. However it is getting better very fast. But you wouldn't know anything about that. You are dependant only on what you read, which in most cases is very slanted towards politics and budgets rather than the real problem. Admit it, you "do not have any" recent practical experience to have first hand information.

as compared to an idiot that is a parts re-seller

Wanta compare BBB reports?

Righttttt! That is why through my legislative efforts (4 industry related bills passed into law in the last four years), being appointed to a Committee of Continueing Existence with the Florida Police Chiefs Association, be awarded Certificates of Appreciation from the Miami-Dade Police Department for the work I have done there, being awarded as the best State Association (which I am on the executive board) working with law enforcement by the national false alarm reduction group FARA, being an instructor at our local police false alarm schools, and having the lowest false alarm ratio in the county for three years running is why I don't deal with unsuspecting customers. They seek me out. Florida is leading the country in our false alarm reduction efforts and is becoming a model for law enforcement to follow. Wait until you see what is heading for your beloved DIYer market. I will be sure to let you know (last). Unfortunately you won't be able to help them with this one because it will take a license. :o] Just might loose your home state there bubba.

Voce e um cabe ca oca! (Can't get in all the accents but you get the drift)

I guess I am unclear about which panels I can use here. According to what I read the panels must have the CP-01 UL sticker. To get that a number of features must be present. Exit Delay:

60 Seconds (45 second minimum) Progress Annunciation (Different sound last ten seconds of delay) Automatic Restart of exit delay ONCE (upon re-entry) Recent Closing -signal sent if alarm within 2 minitues of Exit time expiration

Entry Delay: Default 30 seconds (minimum 30 seconds) Cancel Message window after abort window - 5 minutes

Berglary default 30 seconds dialer abort delay (15-45 second range) May disable by zone or zone type.

Swinger shut-down default is '1' max is '2' Will reset after 48 hours.

Of all the features of CP-01 this is one I like least. Part of the reason to have alarm and restore by zone is to track a burglar through the zones tripped. It takes a sharp central station operator to get you the information, but it has worked for me before.

Just to be clear, CP-01 is not a UL standard. It's a SIA standard. There should also be a UL sticker on the panels.

Following is the text of CP-01 paragraph 4.3.2, which deals with swinger shutdown:

"A programmable swinger shutdown shall be required for each non-fire zone, such that one or two trip shall shut down the zone. The zone shall be restored by a manual reset or may be reset automatically after forty eight (48) hours with no trips on any zones. The default setting for this option shall be one trip for swinger shutdown."

I agree that a single trip should not shut down a zone. I always used 3 trips for shutdown, although with modern equipment swingers are rare if you're careful.

This "feature" is more onerous than some of the others since it's required on all non-fire zones.