Color code for home alarm wiring

I am building a new home and it comes standard with a alarm pre-wire. I have over 30 years experience with electronics, but not with alarms. I plan to buy a Power 832 or vista-20P and install it myself. Could someone provide me the standard wiring color code, or point me to a web site.

Thanks for any help or advise, Bob T

Reply to
me
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You are on your own figuring the wiring out because many prewires i have seen are deliberately fooled with to keep DYI from working on it. you are going to have to use a ohm meter and meter the wiring out. The standard wiring code notmally is red is pos neg is black and white and green is the trip loop but iyou can find all different combinations in systems.

goodluck.

Reply to
Nick Markowitz

There's not standard per se. A lot use red/black for power, yellow/green or white/green for the loop.

Every now and then I'll run across some takeover that used the total opposite scheme which always drives me nuts as it's not logical to me

Reply to
Crash Gordon

For most systems the wiring is simple enough. Using 22/4 solid cable, red is +12V; black is -12V; white or yellow is zone return and green is common. Keypad runs are similar, except that green and yellow (or white) are for data.

You're welcome. I have an online alarm store called

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Reply to
Robert L Bass

or stranded. I see more problems with solid down the road, than with stranded, but that is open to opinions. Nothing says you have to use one over the other.

of course you do. You advertise it every chance you get here on the newsgroup

called

Check B B B in Sarasota, Florida.

Reply to
Bob Worthy

i've always preferred solid over stranded for 90% of my installs...but fail to see how you'd color code differently for stranded vs. solid :-))

Years ago ADT wire used to have blue instead of green (I think it was green)...boy that through my installers into a tizzy :-0 --- I bought hundreds of thousands of feet of it since no one wanted non-standard colored wire...what a deal I got!

| > > Thanks for any help or advise, Bob T | >

| > You're welcome. I have an online alarm store | | of course you do. You advertise it every chance you get here on the | newsgroup | | called | > www.Bigass Bass Bungler Alarms.com | Check B B B in Sarasota, Florida. | | |

Reply to
Crash Gordon

"Bob Worthy" wrote in message news:QcFLf.39534$ snipped-for-privacy@bignews8.bellsouth.net...

There are advantages and disadvanatages. I can't say I have seen any problems with solid over stranded once an installation is complete. There are a couple things that enter in for a prewire during construction. Any wire tags that wind up hanging out of doors or windows tend to get torn up from opening and closing. The stranded tends to hold up marginally better to this abuse. Unfortunatley the stranded is much more limp making it difficult to leave a bit of slack up in the wall or ceiling. I use the solid because I can make an accordiin bend back and forth in my hand about five times and leave it inside the frame of the house. This gives me abut 2 feet of slack to work with. When I come back to do a tie down I grab the wire hanging out of the hole and pull it down. Then I completely cut off the stub that was sticking out. This totally eliminates any wire damaged from the opening and closing of the door or window.

It has taken me some time to education the construction supervisors and the door and window trim guys I work with but I have most of them pretty well trained. I don't know how many 3/8 drill bits I have given away to guys I have cornered and explained that I will invoice for charge backs if I have to cut a hole in the wall to find my wire, but I have very few problems with my installs.

I even have most of the drywall and lathe guys watching out for my boxes. About ten years ago I had a drywall guy cover half dozen boxes on three houses in a row. I tried to talk to him about it and all I got was a loud guffaw! "Haw Haw HAW!" About the thrid gufaaw he broke the dry wall in two walls. He accidentally fell down and when he fell he went right between the studs in the first wall and smashed into another wall. When I helped him up I might have accidentally walked through another section drywall in the same wall with my shoulder so I get to him quickly and help him up. I year or two ago I stared telling that story around construction sites for contractors I work with regularly. My drywall problems still happen, but its almost always an honest mistake now, not just too lazy to measure a box and make a cut.

The funny one, was a lathe guy. About a year ago this guy comae over to a house I was prewiring and asked me how much I would charge back for covering a box on the outside of a house. I explained that it is difficult to precisely locate a box undcer chicken wire and stucco. This often leaves you cutting out a larger section of stucco and hoping you can find the box in the first cut. If its just a box with conduit and that doesn't have any wire in it then its even harder. Then you have to break out an angler grinder to make the cut with a masonry blade or a circular saw with a diamond blade. A dirty nasty job. If all goes well then you just have to get somebody out to patch the stucco. Then you have to come back after the stucco patch is done to finsih the job. Including extra travel it can cost you several hours of time. Thats if you have the right tools to do the job. I don't imagine that many residential low voltage contractors carry and angle grinder and a cable locator in their truck. They probably have a tone and probe, but it just doesn't work well through chicken wire and stucco. Add on that many guys don't label their prewires. They tie down devices and then work backwards to determine which wire they tied down. This means that before you can located a covered wire you have to identify the other end. "So, Mr Lathe guy? What did this electrician charge you to locate his box?" Oh, and don't forget while he is doing several extra hours of work because of your mistake he is falling behind on this job, and other jobs that should be making him money aren't getting done. "Did I tell you about the drywall guy who laughed so hard about covering my boxes that he fell down accidentally breaking through two walls?"

Reply to
Bob La Londe

Now I have another topic that should raise some eyebrows...

Why in all of these years do we use +12V and -12V? In electronics, the difference is 24Volts!! In Electronics you should use +12V and 0V. But they use plus and minus on everything!! On panels, on batteries, everything! Could someone technically explain why -12V is used instead of 0V's?

Thanks!

Reply to
Okitoki

Because.

Reply to
Frank Olson

We used to use solid, as a standard, many years ago, when working for a national company. I switched, when on one particular type of system, that we were installing, required us to keep going into different areas of the system and adding more buildings over the years. Eventually, we started getting opens on the circuits. It seemed the problem was always at the splice point. Not the new one, but the existing ones in the same area. Granted, it wasn't the best application, but it was, as is in most of todays applications, two wires spliced together with beans, beanies, crimps or what ever other term people use. The crimps have very sharp little teeth inside to penetrate the outer jacket of the wire. I think that it might be possible, that with that style crimp, those teeth just may be scoring, notching, or damaging the solid copper core, leaving it weaker than normal. When people are back into the splice, where there is always that possibility of bending or repeated movement of the wire, the copper could break within the jacket at the splice. Maybe we were using the wrong crimps, or maybe we should have been using blocks but in any case, the average installer is going to use the most popular method and that is crimps. The problem went away with stranded wire.

Agreed

Unfortunatley the stranded is much more limp making it

Here in Florida, we don't have that luxury. There is only a 3/4" cap between the sheet rock and the cement block and we have to make a block shot diagonally from the wall to the window. We need flexibility.

This gives me abut 2

Must be nice

When I come back to do a tie down I grab the

We have to drill either a 3/4" or 1" hole into the window or door buck and curl our service loop up into that. Again, needing the flexibility. The new hurricane codes have the doors and windows bolted tight tight tight to the sub frame with no caps. Not as easy as the old days.

Working in S. Florida, where everything is concrete and steel they do.

Bottom line is that you are right. I am sure there are advantages and disadvantages to both from area to area and mostly boils down to preference.

Reply to
Bob Worthy

Any of the keypads for the systems you purchase will have the wiring colours pretty well labelled. Red (+), Black (-), Green and Yellow for "data". The colours aren't really important. What is, is that you maintain a uniform "colour code" throughout your installation. We use yellow and black for contacts, green and red for negative and positive power on devices that require it. On a lot of panels, the keypads use the same "aux power" terminals as the other devices on the system (DSC happens to be one of the exceptions to this). Using the standard keypad colour code suggested by the manufacturer and the wire colours I mentioned for other devices' power (red and green), you can very quickly differentiate the keypad runs from the rest of the system. This could cut your troubleshooting time down by several minutes on the larger systems. When it's time to identify your wire runs, you can find more information here:

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Good luck!!

Frank Olson

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Reply to
Frank Olson

do a reference voltage check against the loop ckt and you;ll notice a -12 at some point.. also some panels use a reverse current to help supervise a circuit (ie.. fire outputs, spkr outputs) ((always a reason)) RTS

Reply to
Rocky T Squirrel

On the european equiptment i work on in plants 0 voltage is used almost exclusive with USA it is always 12v- unless they are following the ICE coding standard used in europe which is 0 voltage. It is probably another one of those 230vac 50hz vs 120/240 60 hz deals

Reply to
Nick Markowitz

One "feature" I like about solid is when/if it breaks...it breaks..gone, switch to the spare pair, with stranded you may have 18 of 19 strands broken...leaving one lonely strand holding the circuit.

Besides, I hate working with stranded...takes longer to do makeups.

"Bob Worthy" wrote in message news:AkHLf.20140$ snipped-for-privacy@bignews2.bellsouth.net... | | "Bob La Londe" wrote in message | news: snipped-for-privacy@adelphia.com... | >

| > "Bob Worthy" wrote in message | > news:QcFLf.39534$ snipped-for-privacy@bignews8.bellsouth.net... | > >

| > > "Robert L Bass" wrote in message | > >

| > >

| > >> For most systems the wiring is simple enough. Using 22/4 solid | > >

| > > or stranded. I see more problems with solid down the road, than with | > > stranded, but that is open to opinions. Nothing says you have to use one | > > over the other. | >

| > There are advantages and disadvanatages. I can't say I have seen any | > problems with solid over stranded once an installation is complete. | | We used to use solid, as a standard, many years ago, when working for a | national company. I switched, when on one particular type of system, that we | were installing, required us to keep going into different areas of the | system and adding more buildings over the years. Eventually, we started | getting opens on the circuits. It seemed the problem was always at the | splice point. Not the new one, but the existing ones in the same area. | Granted, it wasn't the best application, but it was, as is in most of todays | applications, two wires spliced together with beans, beanies, crimps or what | ever other term people use. The crimps have very sharp little teeth inside | to penetrate the outer jacket of the wire. I think that it might be | possible, that with that style crimp, those teeth just may be scoring, | notching, or damaging the solid copper core, leaving it weaker than normal. | When people are back into the splice, where there is always that possibility | of bending or repeated movement of the wire, the copper could break within | the jacket at the splice. Maybe we were using the wrong crimps, or maybe we | should have been using blocks but in any case, the average installer is | going to use the most popular method and that is crimps. The problem went | away with stranded wire. | | > There | > are a couple things that enter in for a prewire during construction. Any | > wire tags that wind up hanging out of doors or windows tend to get torn up | > from opening and closing. The stranded tends to hold up marginally better | > to this abuse. | | Agreed | | Unfortunatley the stranded is much more limp making it | > difficult to leave a bit of slack up in the wall or ceiling. I use the | > solid because I can make an accordiin bend back and forth in my hand about | > five times and leave it inside the frame of the house. | | Here in Florida, we don't have that luxury. There is only a 3/4" cap between | the sheet rock and the cement block and we have to make a block shot | diagonally from the wall to the window. We need flexibility. | | This gives me abut 2 | > feet of slack to work with. | | Must be nice | | When I come back to do a tie down I grab the | > wire hanging out of the hole and pull it down. Then I completely cut off | > the stub that was sticking out. This totally eliminates any wire damaged | > from the opening and closing of the door or window. | | We have to drill either a 3/4" or 1" hole into the window or door buck and | curl our service loop up into that. Again, needing the flexibility. The new | hurricane codes have the doors and windows bolted tight tight tight to the | sub frame with no caps. Not as easy as the old days. | >

| > I don't imagine that many residential low voltage contractors carry and | > angle grinder and a cable locator in their truck. | | Working in S. Florida, where everything is concrete and steel they do. | | Bottom line is that you are right. I am sure there are advantages and | disadvantages to both from area to area and mostly boils down to preference. | |

Reply to
Crash Gordon

You're right. Technically it's wrong but that's the common usage and people are used to seeing it that way -- knowing that the intended meaning is "12VDC".

BTW, I get a kick out of people who ask, which wire is positive when they're talking about an AC circuit.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

I'm not sure whether you're replying to me or to W. Like you, I've always preferred solid core cable for most things. I usually used stranded cable for siren speakers and the transformer. Most everything else gets solid core cable. I'm used to handling it and can manage to strip the stuff without nicking the inner conductors (probably what causes problems for some of these folks).

Speaking of color codes though, every so often I'd get a box of

22/4 stranded cable and for some reason the fourth wire was white

-- not green. Clearly there's not a different color code for stranded but for some reason that's the way it was.

Quite a few years ago they used to use something called "rainbow" wire. It had a clear sheath and I forget how many inside conductors, each of a different color. They would run this stuff around the basement from one junction box to the next. At each box they would splice whatever sensors or key stations (*not* keypads) were nearby to the appropriate wires. Once you knew the color code you could work on any of their systems.

These were ancient systems in southern New England. They may or may not have actually been ADT originally. They bought out several other old companies around the time when Methuselah was cutting his baby teeth. :^)

Reply to
Robert L Bass

I have always been told to use stranded for sound... except that telephone audio obviously propogates very well over solid.

Anything that moves gets stranded.

Reply to
Bob La Londe

That last line said it all, Bob. Speakers and other audio gear tend to get moved around a lot. Thus they are usually connected using stranded cable.

As for audio propagation, there's zero difference between solid and stranded cable. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either trying to sell you something, listening to audio salesmen spout pseudo-scientific drivel or Olson. None should be believed.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

Actually that isn't true

Reply to
Mark Leuck

Heh... I don't need to spout any sort of "drivel" at all when Google is a far more accurate record. You do more to confirm your own stupidity on a daily basis than I ever could.

Speaking of cabling for speakers, here's a very interesting article someone emailed me.

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Frank Olson

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Reply to
Frank Olson

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