My Wifes chuch is getting a fire system which i refused to bid on do to this churchs members politics but company they hired which is one of the big ones in my area today had 2 installer show up to start job and they told church janitor that he had to hang the panel for them they did not do that part of the job. they left wire and tools everywhere for people to trip over and then were asked to lock doors when they left and did not.
once again the fire alarm experts strike.
But the janitors will probably do a better job hanging the panel
Don't get me started on churches and fire alarms, I have plenty of horror stories to tell.
I have numerous churches that have bought commercial fire alarms from me and installed them themselves. It's not rocket science, you know.
"Robert L Bass" a écrit dans le message de news: U8SdnXWZ-IgFvNLbnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com...
At our new office while I was installing the 40 access reader and the DMP panel with 5 keypad 2 lx bus the electrician was trying to install 64 input point and 4 output point with 10 bell's....yesterday as I was installing the last part that I pulled from our old office,the Edwards guy was still there trying to explain how to plug those addressable device to the electrician boss son...when I left half of it was not working properly even after 3 weeks of preparation..
its not rocket science...but it still need to be installed properly and within code specification...
what you fail to tell us is that the guy that did the certification at all those church had to come back for months before all was done ok and that the church paid all those our of work at premium price....
Hmm. This was posted on a Sunday. "Yesterday" was Saturday. Are you telling us that Edwards sent out a rep to work on this small system on Saturday? Please!
Correct. Neither is figuring out when you're making up a story.
Having witnessed some of the type of work done by "professionals" I feel confident advising DIY customers that they can do as good or better.
"Robert L Bass" a écrit dans le message de news: w7GdnbrBkfVGL83bnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com...
yup they sent someone for the lat 6 days in a row,and it was under pressur from us cause our Central is moving too and since we are grade 5 ULC we need proper coverage from fire as you should know..cause ULC and UL certification for Central are about the same...
Dont start pretending that every one is like you...
Having witnessed some job done by DIY I can be sure that most of those church are not protected properly...
Bull! You made it up.
"Robert L Bass" a écrit dans le message de news: 0f2dnXldJudWYc3bnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com...
well if it would not be posting my identity out loud I would post you the link where you could see that we moved the central and the office this week end...
and why we choose this week end was because here in Quebec its a long week end..its the Patriot day...
I don't care whether the company you work for moved. The story about an Edwards tech coming out to your site on Saturday was bull. As to your identity, no one really cares.
He died?
Edwards (now GE Security) will dispatch a tech on any day you choose. If it's a Saturday (or statutory holiday) though, you're going to pay a premium (like four hours minimum at time and a half - which translates to something like $800.00 at $190.00 an hour with the "truck charge"). You're a real piñata, Bass. It's so easy busting your balls.
That bidder made a big mistake providing engineering drawings along with the bid, so the bidder gets ripped off for his time and expertise.
| Bass Home Electronics | 941-925-8650 | 4883 Fallcrest Circle | Sarasota · Florida · 34233 |
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Not really. He used the drawings as a sales tool. In this case he lost the sale. No one wins every time -- not even me. :^)
Once the sale is lost his drawings are of no use to him. Akso, the customer never asked him to include drawings. That was part of his sales approach and it's probably a useful tool. Otherwise he wouldn't do it unless he was Bush. :^)
You know, you guys, there are some smart people out there besides you. There are people with engineering degrees that can read a manual, know what continuity is, can use a voltmeter and know when to ask questions. Luckily tho, I don't go to church. :-)
It's not a matter of "smart" it's a matter of experiece and knowing "what" questions to ask. There's "always" a learning curve that DIY'ers and Dead ass Bass, will never admit exists and what the comparitive cost for it are. The cost of labor and the extended amount of time to do the job is never/EVER, mentioned by anyone involved with a DIY project. It's always compaing the cost of equipment to the cost of equipment AND labor and always ignores the time, labor, expense and cost of mistakes of the DIY'er. When you add it all up at the going rates for a professional to do the job, it's pretty damn close and when done by a professional, subsequent problems are his. A DIY'er has the burden of responsibility of maintaining the system forever. The initial project might be a challange but most times, they eventually opt to have a professional come in. That's where most of the alarm installers come in contact with the ..... shall we say ..... "unorthodox" methods, that are typical to DIY installations. In other words, ..... the systems done by DIY'ers may work, but, at the end, without inspections by someone familiar with the standard and traditional way of doing things, when a professional finally DOES get involved, trying to figure out how things were done in order to test, repair or maintain a system, gets to be ..... if not difficult, just simply a PITA.
The example I often give is the DIR'er who called me in because he couldn't locate an open on his burglar alarm system. He'd seen the drawing on the panel door instructions, that shows a wire coming from one zone terminal with contacts in series and the other end of the wire going back to the box to the other zone terminal. Sure enough, he ran one single wire out from the box to every door and window with all the wires buried in the wall. No test points, no drops to the basement or attic. Nothing exposed.
Oh, and not going to church is no problem as long as you spent the previous night at a Holiday Inn.
That is precisely the point I've been making for the past eight or nine years in this newsgroup. However, there are a number of folks whose living depends on the public believing that alarm work is brain surgery.
That's too bad. Perhaps they would have asked you to help with the installation. All kidding aside I have numerous churches as customers. They often choose to DIY because they can't afford what the local alarm companies want to install a system. My church in CT had on staff several licensed electricians, a licensed low voltage contractor and several engineers. One of our church board members used to design space suits for Martin-Marietta. I think we were equipped to handle the work. Many large organizations -- churches, educational institutions, commercial and industrial operations -- have more than adequate staff to do this sort of simple work.
"Robert L Bass" wrote in news:1pydnfilJ6V2ws7bnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:
A church that "had on staff several licensed electricians, a licensed low voltage contractor and several engineers" that couldn't afford to have a system professionally installed?
That's hard to swallow. a church big enough to have that kind of people "on staff" wouldn't blink at the cost of a life safety system. at least they shouldn't.
In many cases it takes experience to know what you are fighting. I can't tell you how many times I have found faulty instructions, parts etc that frustrate the simplest alarm installations and repairs. Just today I was told that a certain keypad won't work with a certain panel, although the instructions clearly say it will. The factory is sending a new chip. They would not send one to a DIY or probably even speak to one. The alarm industry in too many cases is not a mature enough industry for the DIY, even the most erudite (church goers or not).
I'm sure they are but most of them are usually too busy to research all the codes that apply to an installation like this. Not to mention learning the vernacular, knowing what wire is suitable for what environments and having to figure out the local AHJ's quirks the hard way.
Time is money for folks like this and while there is always the exception to the rule it is worth it to most of them to call a pro.
It takes long enough to try and find out which pro to call and which to avoid.
Luckily enough, there usually aren't people sleeping in a church... errr... well, overnight at least...
"Robert L Bass" a écrit dans le message de news: LLednVHWWcF7oc_bnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com...
Yup they fought for there nation and was hang by a bunch f****ng English ass hole....
about the Edwards guys...he came back today..still found a lot of issue with the fire system and will come back tomorrow...
he is now charging the electrician for his support on a day by day basis,and the electrician was trying to give back to us the bill...
in the mean time we have to keep some security guard on fire watch
24/24...this will cost the electrician even more....wait till he see the bill for the guard...Cabling-Design.com Forums website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.