ASA re-visited

Oct 28, 2005 77 Replies

Sylvain Robitaille wrote:

All I can say .....no.... wait..... all I WILL say .... is that YOU should take the time to go back in THIS groups archives before you make any suggestions at ALL about how to cure the ills of this group. YOU have no idea what an isidious, malicious SOB Bass is. All of the ignoring in the world is not going to stop this nasty, spiteful, and vidictive degenerate.

I don't know if you seen any of the things this creep has done to people, but here's at least a partial list. You will please note, that ignoring most of the items in this list simply empowers him to accomplish his goal of exploiting this Newsgroup for his own personal gain.

He ridicules people constantly. His way is always the right way and there's always someone he's correcting about how things should be done. And if you don't agree with him he's immediately implying that you don't know half of what he knows. That you don't have his experience, or backgroud. He's better than you because you don't agree with him. His mantra is, "this is an alt group. You can't tell anyone what to do here. If you don't like it, you can leave"

He uses this group as a fourm to sell his products to end users, SPECIFICALLY against the FAQ. He lies to end users by telling them he's in the installation trade. He's stolen information from people here and has posted it on his site as his own origin. He plagerized information from publications and claimed it as his ideas. He's called (all) installers and individuals, monkeys, idiots, stupid ..... in his quest to degrade the installation trade, so that end users will be enticed to do their own alarm systems, buying equipment from him, rather than use an "untrustworthy" alarm installer. He claims that he's STILL in the installation trade, yet he hasn't installed a system in over 5 years (and likely much longer) and knows little about new products except what he reads. He's gone to a competitors web site and posting under a false name, left derogatory coments as if he was an end user who'd received bad service. He's contacted peoples employers and told lies about them to get them in trouble with their boss. He's posted under false names as end users praising himself as being a good souce for equipment. He's posted under false names trying to start disagreements. I've personally caught him doing that and others have also.

Now THAT's only SOME of the things that he's done here. Take a good look at that list and tell me what ignoring is going to do? Ignoring simply leaves him free to do what he does and end users, being none the wiser, are taken in by his lies and misdirection and "willingness" to help them. With out being warned, these people are being led right down the path that he's designed. Sure, he may very well give them everything he says he will, but at the expense of the all the people he's stepped on in the meantime. And in ADDITION, the others who frequent the group are ALSO helping the end users and HE'S using that information to enhance his ability to make a sale. Tell me how "ignoring" is going to help THAT? And here's another little tidbit. Seven or more years ago, Bass was in an aviation group. The archives show that he DID THE VERY SAME THINGS IN THAT GROUP AS HE'S DONE HERE! Ultimately, after he'd disrupted the group for a couple of years, THEY ..... all added their names to a list on a post, objecting to his conduct, bad behavior and unsavory arrogance. He ultimately had to leave the group because he was always pointed out as a trouble maker. Here's some of the things that he did there. He had a disagreement with someone in the group so he called some aviation organization and falsely reported that the person was flying drunk. He stole some information from someone and tried to publish it as his own. Then tried to use the returning of the information as ransom if they'd let him back into the group. He sent mail bombs and signed people up to various sites so they'd get mounds of e-mail. When all the participants of that group wanted him out and ignored him, he sent giant files to the Newsgroup to continuously annoy people and to fill up the servers to bump messages from the group.

So ........Tell me now ........ did you want to re-think your advice on what to do about Bass? How does one ignore a malignant, sinister SOB like that?

Oh, and one more thing. In his personal life, he's responsible for the death of someone because of neglegence and is a convicted felon for pulling a gun on someone. How much more of a malevolent degenerate can one person possibly be? He's certainly ranks among the most iniquitous people I've ever come across.

In closing ....... His goal is to exploit this group so he can sell equipment to end users. If that end cannot be met, there's no reason for him to stay. Only ignoring him , simply lets him sell more equipment by continually ranking on the installation trade. By everyone in the group denouncing him as the unpricipaled degenerate he is, to anyone new who comes here, will curtail his exploitation of this Newgroup. Perhaps that, along with ignoring him, would be the solution. Ignoring alone just wont work.

You're post is nice ....... And I know you're just trying to be helpful ....... but .......... it's worthless in view of the deliberate disrupting conduct of the villan we're dealing with.

I was just teasing... But, you have to love the "Bass-o-matic" line by line deconstruct of the post. LOL

snip

Proposed Charter (if none is found, see below)

This newsgroup is for the discussion of those topics directly related to the issues of residential and commercial alarm systems. Security is broadly defined, our interest is primarily in the technical aspects of detection equipment and the installation and maintenance thereof. Discussions may be related to *any* of the wide-ranging specialties including - but not limited to - blah blah blah

Individuals seeking help or information here are coming to this newsgroup for free advice and are reminded that you get what they pay for.

Overt attempts to sell products or services here are frowned upon however introductions of new or innovation products or applications are heartily encouraged. If the sole purpose of your discussion is to gain financially, please re-consider your post or preface your thread with AD:

.are examples of topics that are not appropriate for this group.

This is an unmoderated group. Behave.

Well, it's a start, unless of course Steve has one. Frank, yer always posting, know of a charter? Anybody? .if none pops up, feel free to jump in and add, delete or edit the above.

Done.

Perhaps, but do you really feel any better now, having called him these things?

I disagree, though I also don't believe you've given the approach a fair chance.

On that count, I'm afraid, unless the a new moderated group is created and traffic is moved to that group (very difficult to accomplish, rendering this "probably not worth trying") he's right. It *is* an alt.* newsgroup, and it isn't moderated. Someone coming to this newsgroup for free advice needs to be prepared to get what they pay for.

An FAQ is not a group charter. Is there a charter for the group? If so, is it posted to the group on a regular basis?

But why are you trying to convince me that he should be banned from the group? (perhaps you're not, but your message comes off sounding as though you are.) I can be just as careful taking his advice as I am taking anyone else's.

It will bring you to accept the participants in this newsgroup, and the newsgroup itself, for what they are. Is your professional reputation worth continuing trying to harm his?

You may be underestimating end users. Certainly I don't imagine that I'm an example of the average, but I also don't imagine that the average are not careful enough to consider more than one opinion when seeking free advice, then applying some common sense in deciding which opinion to follow if there are contradictions.

Are you perhaps one of those people he's stepped on? If not, please forgive my asking, because it seems as though you feel you are. If so, one can hardly accept your points as being unbiased.

Had I come in here to determine whose services to hire, I admit that his would not be near the top of my list, but to be quite frank, neither would yours.

No, but I don't believe I've convinced you either. Your question above, and in fact your entire post, makes it clear that for you this has become a personal matter. A newsgroup should not be permitted to become personal.

One does not let the newsgroup become personal.

I would argue that your approach is no less disruptive.

Um, thanks, but would you have found it more effective for me to just top-post my response and quote all of Jim's message following it?

If no one minds the input from a newcomer to the newsgroup, I'd like to participate. At the moment, I feel I should wait to see if someone (perhaps Steve or Frank) responds with a link to an existing charter.

Otherwise, I agree that what you've proposed, with the missing pieces added according to consensus, and all grammar (and any typographical) errors corrected is a very good start, and matches the perception of this newsgroup that I've come to acquire.

Not only in Canada, but now he's impersonating a computer analyst who is at best a do-it-yourselfer when it comes to alarm systems. Not exactly the same caliber of claims I imagine you folks have come to be used to from "he". ;-)

The Groups "Original Purpose Message" and a brief history is here:

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The FAQ (or nearest thing to a Charter that we have is here:

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I've removed the links to Steve's former website (as they were no longer functional) and corrected some minor spelling mistakes. Other than that, what you see is what you get!! :-))

Those look reasonably close to what I remember (it's been a long time). I have the originals as well as the content of the original ASA website at home still. Heck, I still have the messages when the AlarmSystems group was formed on RelayNet back in the 80's.

As an unmoderated group understand that you have no recourse against anyone who doesn't follow the rules or charter. The rules and charters are only for those that want to "play nice". Generally only those asking for help will follow the rules, those who are using it for personal means will do what they want and say to he\\\\ with the rules. Going to a moderated group would be the only way to really control the group Sad but true.

With that said, if a bunch of you decide to move forward with this, if I can provide web hosting or other support for the effort, let me know.

Thanks Steve for your help....It's been a long time since I've seen your name on here....

Norm Mugford

Subject: Re: ASA re-visited Newsgroup: alt.security.alarms => Sylvain Robitaille

You would think that would be a good idea; however, the underlying problem would still be there. The "miscreant" in question would not adhere to any document that was drafted by we "monkeys". Additionally, when (if) RLB decides to grace us with his presence again, he will want to add his input for any group charter. Reaching a consensus is going to be hard enough without RLB, with him involved it will be impossible.

Great! You can help by ....

--> Issuing a UDP for his nym. and am offering to set up a periodic posting of whatever text is agreed

I fear it's much too late for that, friend. But let's see what the other regulars have to say. A charter issued almost 9 years after the group's creation is not going to carry much weight IMO.

It's good to see you back again Steve.

Hope all is well.

It would be good to move forward after all this time. Thanks for taking the time.

I think that a charter can easily be made up of a combination of sections from "THE GROUP'S PURPOSE", the "ORIGINAL PROPOSAL" and "ORIGINAL NEWGROUP MESSAGE", perhaps with a selection of the material from "HISTORY OF THE GROUP". It should include pointers to both the "Abou ASA" and "ASA FAQ" documents, rather than repeat their content.

I currently manage the news server at Concordia University in Montreal, and am offering to set up a periodic posting of whatever text is agreed upon within this group as an official charter, if others agree that periodic posting of the charter would be a useful approach to helping enforce it (in practice, it helps a lot because it gives newcomers a chance to review the charter upon entering the group, and it give regulars a message to point to in cases where someone crosses the boundaries).

I currently have such periodic posting setup for several concordia.* newsgroups (not all of which would be visible from commercial news services) and for the can.config newsgroup, which should be more widely available (though perhaps mostly in Canada). The news server I manage is reasonably well connected, via several CaNet and UseNet-2 connected peers.

Dunno if you missed this or not, but RLB's "contact page" no longer has an

800 number, and both "local numbers" that are displayed resolve to Tampa, Florida, not Sarasota... Maybe Rojas has an idea about what's "shakin'"...

You may be right, but if the charter adheres to the documentation that has been in existence and followed as an unofficial charter for the same period of time, it may still be worthwhile. I'm not proposing drafting new documentation, but rather selecting relevant portions (and pointing to others) of existing documentation.

F*ck off you tree hugging canuck I love the turmoil :-)

So basically Meghan's Law finally worked?

Dude you seriously need a new picture. Looks like you borrowed an outfit from Wonder Woman's twin brother. Jack put my ancient photo next to the one of Pinkie in his Estaban costume. Talked to the old man today. Have you been out to see him yet?

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