New hotspot.... how?

Hello guys: My project is to create a free hotspot at my building home, a concrete 4 floor, (21x4) apartments building.

My building have a L shape, aprox. 40 by 125 meters Place: Little town on Canada. My experience is none, except for the fact of my own wireless network at home.

I have a lot of questions, but let me start with the basic:

I have to do a special contract with the ISP(Rogers), or almost let they know about the project? Is Bell better provider for the project? If I install AP devices (1 or 2) along the long arm, what model is the best (Cost-Benefit)?, can the devices setup like repeaters and AP simultaneasly? Do you think I need to install AP devices on each floor?

May i use my own d_link DI-624 router?

What software if needed?

Please be patient whit me... and my "Tarzan" english...

Thanks in advance...

Reply to
yv6eda
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Big. It probably cannot be done with one access point, especially due to the "L" shape. Placement of radios are critical. The usual method is to "illuminate" the building from the outside and go through the windows. Going though poured concrete is almost impossible. If you have access to the adjacent buildings, this should be easy. If not, you are about to have a major problem locating the access points.

Fine. You have some hardware. Drag the access point over to the neighboring building. Attach a somewhat directional antenna (sector antenna or panel antenna) to "illuminate" one wall of the building. Take your client radio and laptop and do what's called a site survey. The idea is to estimate what manner of coverage and reliability you'll achieve. Netstumbler and a set of blueprints will work, but there are also professional (overpriced) site survey programs. At the same time, look for sources of interference. If the local municipality has a mesh network, or there are existing WISP (wireless ISP) systems in the area, you will have LOTS of interference.

Not so fast. You gotta do some homework first. Read: |

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you have the terms, buzzwords, and methodologies nailed, then come back and ask some questions.

I also suggest you read: |

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list for those with some experience in apartment building networks.

Have you read your Rogers Cable AUS and TOS contracts? Generally, redistribution is prohibited by contract. However, that depends on whether you have consumer or business class service. For consumer, start here:

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the AUP at:
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"You may not resell, share, or otherwise distribute the Services or any portion thereof to any third party without the written consent of Rogers."

I'm not familiar with Canadian ISP's. You may want to investigate Comerica ISP's that allow reselling of their bandwidth. If you bring in a T1 you'll have the advantage of 1.5Mbits/sec in both directions instead of one.

Repeaters should be avoided if it is possible to run a CAT5 cable between the main router and the remote access points. If the use is high enough, you may find yourself installing more than one access point at each location. Repeater rebroadcast what they hear and therefore fill the airwaves with duplicated packets. Since only one radio in the entire system may transmit at a time, repeater will cause considerable RF congestion. Same with mesh networks. Avoid if possible.

I have no idea. Post a photo of the building and some clue as to the areas you want to cover and we can make a better guess. If you illuminate from the outside of the building, chances are good you can get away with a small number of access points. If you try it from the inside, I'm sure the number will be much larger.

You'll probably need separate access points in the public areas.

No. What you want are access points, not router. You can convert a wireless router into an access point, but there are better products. You're main problem is going to be managing this mess. You can't do that with commodity hardware. Look at something like:

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I'll generalize by function rather than by vendor as you will need to do some shopping.

  1. Bandwidth management (so nobody hogs the whole system)
  2. Abuse management (disconnect hackers)
  3. Intrusion detection.
  4. Virus/worm/whatever firewall.
  5. User authorization and administration (passwords and 802.1x RADIUS)
  6. Encryption management.
  7. RF diagnostics (error rate, signal strength, etc)
  8. Channel plan mange men. (what channels and where)
  9. Transient user management. (temporary visitor use)
  10. Billing?
  11. Traffic monitoring and recording.
  12. DMCA compliance??? Plus whatever else I forgot. There's plenty more the management software should do, but I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

Think of this as a system. Pretend it's all working and installed. Now, how are you going to run it and deal with clients and tech issues? Better yet, *WHO* is going to run it? That's the "real" problem.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

A bit more from Rogers Cable/Yahoo "End User Agreement":

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proclaims that one may not: "resell or use the Services (including any Equipment) for anything other than your own personal purposes. Without limitation, you may not use the Services to provide Internet access or any other feature of the Services to any third party and you may not use the Services for any commercial or business purposes;"

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

OK Jeff, first of all thanks very much for your answer, I'm now with the feet on the ground and I can start. Mi project is to give free internet access to my community, I can explain my personal reasons for this particular project in another time then, first I was looking for some advice, and your answer give me many of them. BTW I think you are a Ham like me... nice... I'm YV6EDA from Venezuela, but living here for the last 3 years, ok.

I want to use your answer to clarificate my toughts, then let me go for parts, I hope my questions don't borrow you. Starting for the viability of the project, I live an work in this buildings... 2 4 floor buildings, A is aprox 40X125 and B 95X25 meters. The aprox shape from the cenit is (I don't know if this will be work:

___________________ | | | B | |______________ | | | ____ | | | | |____| | | | |____________________ | X | | A | |_________________________|

Each building is in L shape, and I live at building A in X (4th floor), following your idea, If I install an AP1 on building B "illuminating A, and AP2 on building A illuminating B, it's possible to cover both buildings... but I have suites on both sides of each building.

I'm thinking the first movement is to buy an AP and do my buildings reserch. When I refer to my router before, means if I use that router like a router with an ap to do my reserch. BTW what AP, D-Link?

Let me stop here, I hope my project catch your interest...

73

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When you have the terms, buzzwords, and methodologies nailed, then

Reply to
yv6eda

Take look here...

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free software in the form of a CD image to run on a laptop or old PC with wifi and network cat5 card... acts as a hotspot.

Or do it the easy way and buy a Mesh box off them and it's plug and play.

Doz

simultaneasly?

Reply to
Doz

Ohh.. and for more coverage add another box.. it auto meshes to provide extra distance. Without a LAN connection it configures as a relay.

Reply to
Doz

Hi yv6eda, I'm Venezuelan too, maybe I could help you with your project if you tell me what you really want to do because I couldn't understand what is the real thing you're looking for in your questions. Sorry to write you in english, but if not, people here in the group would get angry. Anyway, you can write me directly to my email or publish yours and I'll write you.

Reply to
heldmar

Thanks Heldmar, Well basicly I wan to create a free wireless network on my building. I'm trying to install a network of hardware to give free basic internet access at my 2 buildings comunity. I'm looking for expertise, advise, hardware models/brand and all kind of info cause my own experience in this area is with my own wireless network at home.

Jeff, on a previous message, open my eyes and now I know the project is far larger than I think in the first steps, but I'm very positive, if I lern enough, is possible I can put my ideas in order and, who knows, maybe I can invite the buildings owner to participate.

I'll be waiting for your comments.. Thanks in advance...

Reply to
yv6eda

You can starts small and grow as needed. The trick is to design the systems from the strart with the intention to grow. It's fairly easy to setup a one to three radio wireless hot-spot type of system that requires minimum monitoring and management overhead. Beyond 3 radios, life becomes complex. Even with 3 radios, bandwidth management becomes critical as one user can saturate the entire bandwidth.

The vendors I supplied were all "wireless switch" vendors. Basically, the radios (access points) are dumb and all the features and functions reside in the central switch box. The advantages are central management and security. The disadvantages are high initial cost and a proprietary solution that locks you into one vendor.

Since this will start as an "amateur" adventure, I suggest you research wireless hot spot software and technology. Something based on a WRT54G with alternative firmware might be a good start. Most versions include some form of bandwidth management. Place it in a location where it can illuminate one wall of the building and see how well it works. If it becomes popular, add more radios until you hit 3 total (channels 1, 6, 11).

At that point, be prepared to throw everything out and start over with proper equipment. By this time, you should get a good feel for what I mean't by administration and management. You will probably need to build a "management server" for running central DHCP, SNMP management, and monitoring. You should also exprience the 2AM telephone call from the irate users, interference problems, worms, bandwidth hogging, playing policeman for abusers. You should also have a good idea by this time as to how large the system needs to be and how much it will cost.

Good reading:

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(Firmware section under most popular)
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I've helped build a WISP, run a neighborhood LAN, manage a few hot spots, and have setup business and hotel WLAN's. However, mostly I fix them when something goes wrong. Think of this exercise as setting up a wired (telco or cable) ISP, but with the added hassle of having a rather unreliable and uncontrolled delivery mechanism. It has all the requirements of running a small utility service. In theory, the money we charge compensates for the administrative overhead and complications. I would not do it for free.

Best of luck

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

Give some consideration to other issues besides the technical ones. Since you are the ISP people will expect you to do everything for them especially since you are providing service for free. You will also want to consider what you will do to address p2p users and trojans that will saturate your network and what about copyright violations or illegal activity such as child p*rn?

Reply to
George

Well what I can recommend you is to get into Linksys WRT54G access point, because I recently have bought one and I'm very satisfied. Not just because it's G technology (which means that users with G hardware would get a better connection speed and stability but users with B hardware will get connection too!), but it also can be "hacked" to function better and more powerful.

I recently changed my firmware (the software that comes into it) and it can give me signal upstairs at home (you should know how houses are made here in Venezuela with a LOT of concrete which is usually impossible to go for signals). I used to have a Linksys B access point and it didn't send sufficient signal to get it upstairs but this one rocks! Besides that, this router includes some security settings which would help you for the case that some people has proposed about P2P, and bandwith eaters that you would have to take care of if you do your project. In fact, I think that people which you'll propose the project would have to be accord with you about the "rules" you would have to make about your bandwith (you should not permit a lot of bandwith go for any user in particular if you want thing going smootly), of course that you can't restringe any service (even P2P) but you can control it so you and your co-connectors have a very nice experience. You should check that option and besides that it doesn't cost more than $59 at Amazon.com. Anyway, you can check

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too!

Reply to
heldmar

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