Hey all,
Sometime ago there was some discussion about a device to assist in a takeover of a panel with out having to do any programming. As I remember it was a thingie that plugged in at the RJ31X and would communicate to your C/S.
Anyone have a name or model that I can search for??
Thanks,
Les
Able there use to be something like that on SandMan's telecom web site..
Hey all,
Sometime ago there was some discussion about a device to assist in a takeover of a panel with out having to do any programming. As I remember it was a thingie that plugged in at the RJ31X and would communicate to your C/S.
Anyone have a name or model that I can search for??
Thanks,
Les
RTS, I will check it out.
I kinda think there was another that did the similar.
Thanks,
Les
Do you mean this piece of s**t???
Good Luck with the takeovers......
Russ
That may have been the one, but I thought there was one that you could purchase at 5 or 10 quantities not a 50 minimum. I understand why the minimum but 50??
BTW there are a lot more reasons for a customer to switch services than not wanting to pay the current.
Thanks,
Les
I have also seen ones for allowing panels to run on voip or internet lines as well which does same thing.
another trick we've done over the years is to run a voltage/resistor bridge on the phone line input to fake out the panel sensor. then connect a dialer to the siren outputs.. It's old school but will work in a pinch... RTS
RTS, I will check it out.
I kinda think there was another that did the similar.
Thanks,
Les
A couple of the full data cellular units can act as takeover units. Need to drop the telco then though.
Les,
Why would you ever want to takeover a panel without checking out thoroughly what the previous company programmed into the panel?
Do you want to take on the liability for the errors that may be lurking from the previous company's not-so-swift tech who may not have known what he was doing?
A company is only as good or reliable as its worst technician.
The independent third-party that makes itself know when something goes wrong (fire, burglary, rape, etc), is the insurance company's lawyers. Everyone involved is fair game. Unless you have really deep pockets like ADT to fight and eventually win even when there is gross negligence, you are putting yourself, company, and license at risk.
Change the board if you do not have the skill yet to be able to crack it open. Do the right thing and be proud of your work. You owe it to your customers, not to your pocketbook. You can ask for some or all of the money for the cost of the board.
After all, you are in the "security" industry and that is what your customers expect. Be a security professional, not a monitoring revenue junkie.
If you find these words offensive, you have been in the business too long. If you are fairly new, you learned from the wrong people.
There is a device by
Search or call Security Systems News publication/website. I remember an article about 2008, a new startup company had a way to default panels to factory installer. You had to pay for each takeover. I spoke to the president of the company at the time. I had been under the impression that you just bought the device and could then default the installer code. But no, he wanted recurring revenue for it. You could buy a chip or something that would be good for 5, 10 or 20 times. We parted on not so good terms. Now basically, we don't even need him. Very seldom do we have to replace a panel because we can't get into it.
As far as I am concerned, it should be illegal to refuse to make a former customer's panel accessible within 48 hours after notification. Man, think about it, what if the telephone industry was setup like this. "I'm sorry Mam, but I can't get into your phone to program the answering machine and the speed dials. It's locked out. You'll have to buy a whole new phone"....well, an alarm panel is just really a complicated phone, isn't it?
Dear E.
I have been in the business a long time, no spring chicken, and I am not offended at all. I realize all the pit falls of the discussion. And if you wanted to continue the thoughts it goes way beyond any issue of a past installer screwing things up. However I doubt that anyone can put together a system that some smart ass attorney can't make ones life a living hell just picking at every detail or the way you might twist your wires before termination. The fear factor can be extended to many more aspects of the alarm business.
But all of this is basically a moot point with me, since I was not asking for info for anything that I was working on. The info was for another dealer that am friends with. He is the one that was considering looking into the possibilities. I was just doing the searching. I believe he has or will be coming up with an alternative game plan. He has been in the business for a number of years more than me. I have passed your dissertation on to him as a courtesy.
All is good here. Life goes on.
Have a good day.
Les
Not necessarily ! A lot of companies lock boards simply because they can, w= ith no regard to the fact that the panel is owned by the customer. Somehow = they think this keeps other companies from "stealing" their accounts. But w= ith boards being sold to us at around $50 or so, it does little to stop oth= er companies; however, it does create a problem for new home owners who buy= a home with an installed alarm system which they bought with the house, an= d which is unusable for all intents and purposes without spending unnecessa= ry money.=20
In most of these cases, the only one getting screwed is the home owner. We = have one company here in Ottawa called Kodiak security, that makes no secre= t of the fact they lock all their boards. And they have over 10,000 custome= rs being screwed that way....
I'm currently working with government officials and pressuring them to make= this abhorrent practice illegal, as well it should be...
On Wednesday, November 7, 2012 6:41:39 PM UTC-5, tourman wrote:
you mean this piece of s**t??? > >
Hi Robert,
I hope someday you will find out that LaLa land doesn't exist.=20
Since the proportion of people who have alarm system compared to those who = don't is so great and the fact that generally the public doesn't make compl= aints about locking out panels .... and law makers are, in the end, only in= terested in doing things that get the greatest amount of votes..... You kno= w as well as anyone, that even if by some exreeemly remote possiblilty any = bureaucrat would think that it was important enough to introduce such a law= ... the industry would come up with some other alternative.=20
Even though you hear the stories about Dudly Do Right saving the damsel in = distress in the nick of time, you never hear about all the times that he go= t there too late. And you'll notice that the villan always comes up with an= other plan. Greed is a relentless villan and Dudly can't be everywhere.=20
Off the top of my head, how about ..... Sure Mr customer, here's your progr= aming code. Now all you need is this here $400.00 programer to go with it. Or why sure Mr customer, here's your code now all you have to do is get a c= opy of the password protected software from the manufacturer for a fee of c= ourse ..... $400.00. or Oh yeah, I forgot to mention .... you'll need to pa= y a fee to the central station to download your programing instructions. or= .... Oh yes, did you know how to program hexidecimal? or ..... or.=20
Ain't never gonna happen Robert. Just think of the Man from LaMancha.
You always seem to ignore the fact that the programing of the panel belongs= to the installer and the installer has a right to protect his property. My= contracts contain a clause that says that the program belongs to me, does = not belong to the client, is leased and if they won't let me get it back th= at they will owm me $350.00. If they decide to terminate my service and the= y're up to date on monitoring fees, I will deprogram the monitoring capabil= ity and default the system to be accessable with factory default access.=20
You may get something passed to the effect that a company cannot NOT deprog= ram a system if the client has lived up to his original agreement but you'l= l never be able to convince even a bureaucrat that a company doesn't have a= right to protect it's property. And, of course how do you stop a company f= rom going out of business ......=20
Surely ..... it's a dilemma and unscrupulous people will take advantage of = it. And it's nice to think that everything should be nice and fair and that= we should all hold hands and every thing in the world will be alright ....= but that's not the human condition.=20
But I do understand one thing about this subject. We're both crotchty old m= en who will stick to our prinicpals ...... regardless.
Hello from LaLa land Jim. Glad to see you're still here. I've pretty much l= eft the group except to check back in from time to time.
You're correct about greed and dishonesty being the driving motive behind a= lot of business activities. However, those of us who really care about mak= ing our industry truly professional, can't just sit back and do nothing whe= n abuses such as this are widespread. Nothing worth doing is easy, and ther= e are never any guarantees in life, but you have to take some kind of actio= n if you want to see things improve. It's often surprising to see what can = be accomplished if one person takes the lead and pushes an issue.=20
Just to recap. I have no problem with any company locking a board THAT BELO= NGS TO THEM AND IS NOT PAID FOR. My problem comes in when companies routine= ly lock boards for selfish reasons, with no regard to unlocking them when t= he contracts are over. As you know, I have been unlocking boards for years = for other companies and home owners being held hostage by the original alar= m companies. When an abuse of something becomes as widespread as it current= ly is,and the abusers are held to no standard at all, nothing will ever hap= pen. All this hoopla about programming belonging to the original company is= just that..hoopla, and it doesn't amount to a hill of beans in this argume= nt, since we are talking about "after the fact". The bottom line is, no ala= rmco has a right to lock boards that don't belong to them - period ! And fa= r too often, once a customer moves and / or the contract is over, the alarm= co will never bother to put the panel back in usable shape for the next use= r, simply because in this industry of ours, no one gives a damn about any o= ther company and especially about the consumer! It's all about protecting t= he revenue stream and to hell with other companies. And the consumer gets t= rapped in the middle!
I'm not going to rattle on about this. You know my "crotchety" feelings abo= ut this kind of theivery (because that's what the abuse of this feature is)= , but I will continue to push this at several different levels. The biggest= problem is consumers are unaware of this restriction on their properly rig= hts until they become a victim, so there is little overall push to change t= hings. I promise you, I am in the process of changing that !!
Anyway, all the best to you Jim. I hope the damage to the Eastern seaboard = didn't cause you any personal grief. I'll check in again from time to time = to rattle your cage....:))
With panels being so cheap, I don't know why you wouldn't replace it and start over. That way you *know* it's programmed correctly.
You can go to
Or, you can go to Jim Rojas Technical Manuals Online! at
snipped-for-privacy@Osama-is-dead.net... > ABLE1 Wrote: > >>Hey all, =
it was a thingie that plugged in at the RJ31X and would >>communicate to y= our C/S. >> >>Anyone have a name or model that I can search for?? > > With = panels being so cheap, I don't know why you wouldn't replace it and > start= over. That way you *know* it's programmed correctly. > You can go to http:=//
Sniff sniff.=20 That was beautiful. I think I'm going to cry.
in a >>takeover of a panel with out having to do any programming. As I
to your C/S. >> >>Anyone have a name or model that I can search for?? > > With panels being so cheap, I don't know why you wouldn't replace it and > start over. That way you *know* it's programmed correctly. > You can go to
I'll bet you cried when "Old Yeller" died too! :-)
snipped-for-privacy@Osama-is-dead.net... > ABLE1 Wrote: > >>Hey all= , >> >>Sometime ago there was some discussion about a device to assist in a= >>takeover of a panel with out having to do any programming. As I >>rememb= er it was a thingie that plugged in at the RJ31X and would >>communicate to= your C/S. >> >>Anyone have a name or model that I can search for?? > > Wit= h panels being so cheap, I don't know why you wouldn't replace it and > sta= rt over. That way you *know* it's programmed correctly. > You can go to htt= p://
RHC: ROFL.....:)))
On Saturday, November 10, 2012 1:55:14 PM UTC-5, Frank Kurz wrote: That was beautiful. > I think I'm going to cry. >
I'll bet you cried when "Old Yeller" died too! :-)
But .... my wife is still alive.
On Saturday, November 10, 2012 1:55:14 PM UTC-5, Frank Kurz wrote:
PM UTC-5, E DAWSON wrote: >> "G. Morgan" wro= te in message news: snipped-for-privacy@Osama-is-dead.net... =
ut a device to assist in a >>takeover of a panel with out having to do any = programming. As I >>remember it was a thingie that plugged in at the RJ31X = and would >>communicate to your C/S. >> >>Anyone have a name or model that = I can search for?? > > With panels being so cheap, I don't know why you wou= ldn't replace it and > start over. That way you *know* it's programmed corr= ectly. > You can go to
I'll bet you cried when "Old Yeller" died too! :-)
I just thought I'd let you know ...... I just got a confirmation that bello= wing Bertha is still alive and well.
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