Does having multiple RJ45 jacks degrade the Internet signal a lot?

Well, this is messy, but I think you might appreciate the details. I'll use the common Speedstream 4200 DSL modem as an example. When installed in the approved AT&T manner, the ethernet port delivers

192.168.1.64 to the external router. The management IP address of the DSL modem is 192.168.1.1.

When connected to a typical Linksys router, the router also wants to use 192.168.1.1 as it's IP address. That's not going to work, and the DSL modem automagically switches to 192.168.0.1 and delivers

192.168.0.64. (This is not 100% reliable, causes some odd problems, and is largely responsible for why Belkin and others are delivering routers using 192.168.2.1).

At first glance, this arrangement looks like double NAT. It is, but with a difference. All IP ports in the DSL modem are forwarded to the ethernet port, so there's no problem with incoming traffic not making it to the router. Were this a "real" double NAT setup, the first router (in the DSL modem) would NOT have any ports forwarded by default.

The catch is that you can only forward ALL the IP ports to one IP address. That means that the DSL modem can only do the NAT thing to one IP address, and therefore to only one device. If that device is a router, there's no problem. If you try to connect an ethernet switch to the DSL modem, and plug in multiple computahs, only one computah will work.

There's one other item that might be of interest. The DSL modem intercepts all traffic on the WAN (DSL) side destined to the management IP address (192.168.1.1). Normally, the external router is configured to send everything to the internet, except the IP's on the LAN side (192.168.1.xxx). If you plug 192.168.1.1 into the web browser, the router will send it to the internet, and the DSL modem will not respond. So, they violate some RFC, and trap this address, sending it to the local LAN side, and then to the management web server inside the modem.

The problem is that the 4200 seems to have a botched implementation of this undocumented feature. The later DSL modems work well, as do most cable modems. Older modems lack this feature and require a static route on the WAN side to get to the DSL modem management web page.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann
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I have the scars to prove it.

Sigh. Like I said, there are no simple installs.

Looks ok to me. Nothing much to complain about here. Well, don't forget to use anti-seize grease on the threaded pipe mast.

Looks like someone built up the wall with battens, wallboard, and floor tiles glued to the wallboard. What are the wall tiles made from? I think I can see why the stud finder didn't work. The studs are too far away.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

I understand and agree.

Home Depot didn't have anything between 100 feet (which was too short) and 500 feet (which is probably three times what I need).

Here's a picture of the box of cable that I bought:

- $75 cat5e 24AWG solid core indoor/outdoor "tan"

-

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Here are 6 pictures of the current (abomination) setup:

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Reply to
Chuck Banshee

Where do most of you buy about 250 feet of cat5e cable? ( Here is a picture of what I bought for $75 + San Jose tax)

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Yes. But.

My new WISP is asking me to put the first device (UBNT M2) in 'bridge' mode so that it would be on my WISP provider's subnet (Santa Cruz Mountains).

My portable Skype phone works - but sometimes on outgoing calls (which is the only way I use it) it only hears one end of the conversation. Could 'that' be related to the double NAT?

and leave the NAT to the WRT54G.

I understand the suggestion. In effect, I think both the NAT & the DHCP will be removed when/if I follow my WISP's recent (yesterday) suggestion to configure the Ubuntu Bullet M2 in "bridge" mode and change the IP address to be on his subnet.

One reason I may have to add "a" pigtail is that the planar antenna N connector is in the CENTERLINE of the antenna (which seems to me to be the dumbest place to be!).

The problem with the centerline is that the mast is in that same centerline! So, you can't have any mast ABOVE the antenna.

Here is a picture I took tonight of what I mean:

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You can see the bullet-shaped white Ubiquiti M2 screwed directly into the back of the 19 dBi planar antenna, tilted slightly upward.

In the future, if I want to add a TV antenna, I'd have to move the bullet M2 out of the centerline anyway. So, at that point, I'll need "a" patch cord anyway.

Your discussion on the signal losses in that pigtail are interesting!

This is a picture of what I bought from "Home Despot" for $75 + tax:

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Does it look OK for the 3 runs below? a) About 100 feet from the antenna to the garage (zig zagging outdoors & buried just underground) ... and then continuous to ... b) About 25 feet from the garage to the crawl space up to the office (zig zagging all indoors) c) About 25 separate feet from the office back down to the crawl space and horizontally over to the game room

That makes sense because that was the "right way(tm)" to wire the game room; if I were to wire the garage, then it makes sense to be similar to the game room in concept (i.e., a 'dead wire' run from the office to the garage).

I have no problem running two cables - so - I won't consider doubling up anymore. I have three times more cat5e cable than I need anyway. And, these pictures of the crawl space show I have plenty of room.

I just need to drill a bigger hole! :)

Picture of crawl space view up into the floor of the office

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of entrance hole in the wall of the office: www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/7212874/1024/Anonymous/cat5-questions.gif

Picture of crawl space view over to the game room (far end of house):

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of hole in the wall of the game room:
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Reply to
Chuck Banshee

Oh oh ...

I had already bought this tester at the same time as the cable (but I can return it as I haven't opened it yet): $80 + tax at Home Depot Klein Tools "VDV Scout Pro Tester Kit, VDV501-809

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But, I like the price of your $15 tester MUCH BETTER!

Reply to
Chuck Banshee

That would sure be a lot of breakers.

I vaguely remember (which makes it likely I'm wrong) that there is an issue regarding running different phases in the same box unless it really is 220.

You've probably seen large homes where they use multiple breaker boxes. I assuming there is a price point where the second box saves enough wire that it is worth the effort.

Reply to
miso

Is this the Airlink 101 stuff that Fry's practically gives away?

Reply to
miso

My head is about to explode like that episode on Star Trek with Harry Mud. Norman coordinate. Or maybe Nomad being confused about Kirk being the creator.

I don't install enough wired system to be good at it. I get it working, lose all knowledge, then relearn everything when someone begs me to hook up a router.

I have the modem address at 192.168.1.254. The router is at

192.168.123.1. Hell if I recall why I had to set them up as totally different networks, other than I had conflict otherwise. The modem is an 2wire used commonly on AT&T bought off of Craigslist. My ISP sold me some POS that would lock up. [Asking for a new modem got me a new POS that was worse than the first, plus a year's lock in.] Say what you want about 2wire gear, it never locks up for me. It also detected the double NAT, bitched at me, turned off it's firewall and DMZed to my router. I was both dissed and pleased at the same time. The thought of having to make it all work again is what I suppose keeps me from replacing the flaky Linksys router.
Reply to
miso

Taking all the advice into account (much appreciated!) ...

How does this proposed diagram look?

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Understood.

Given the diagram referenced above, how do these numbers look?

- WISP provider antenna is on the next ridge, 2000 feet line of sight away

- WISP requests I set the radio to bridge mode (Santa Cruz Mountains)

- WISP asks me to set it to a given 10.0.x.y IP address

- WISP asks me to set broadband router IP (WRT54G) to 10.0.x.y+1

- I don't really understand WISP provider's suggestions - but will comply

- Cable is 500' of cat5e 4pr 24AWG Solid Tan CMR CMX Outdoor RoHS

- Antenna is 19 dBi planar with N female connector

- Radio is Ubiquiti Bullet M2 with N male connector (mounted on antenna!)

- Antenna is 13 feet off the ground on a steel pole set in concrete

- Cat5e cable is ~100 foot run (to be buried) from radio to garage

- Angled & tubed hole is planned; drip loop on outside is planned

- Extra coil of cable on inside garage wall is planned

- 15 volt Ubiquiti POE is planned to be mounted in the garage

- From garage, cat5e cable enters crawl space & up to office (~25 feet)

- Wall plate definitely on office wall (probably 3 jacks will be used)

- Jumper from wall plate to the Linksys WRT54G router input port

- Output from WRT54G goes back to another jack in the wall plate

- That jack is wired ~25 feet back down the crawl space to the game room

- At the game room, is another wall jack

- A jumper tethers the wall jack to the Wii gaming console

- Optionally, the garage is similarly tied to the third jack in the office

See proposed diagram here:

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Reply to
Chuck Banshee

Since I added more pictures to answer questions, here's the set:

Diagram of proposed setup (based on everyone's advice!)

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    WISP antenna pointed at the next ridge about 2000 feet away:
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    Temporary "bucket router" to bring signal into house wirelessly:
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    Crawl space view up into the floor of the office (center of house):
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    Crawl space view over to the game room (far end of house):
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    Entry point at the office (where the office jack will be placed):
  • www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/7212874/1024/Anonymous/cat5-questions.gif

Entry point of the game room with box of cable proposed:

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    Klein Tools cable tester bought from Home Depot (unopened as yet):
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Reply to
Chuck Banshee

That's a GREAT idea!

I assembled the mast with water pipe so that I could disassemble it at will; but I hadn't thought about the gray anti-seize paste idea!

You are right that it's definitely floor tile (which feels like a stone of some sort) that is on top of an existing wall!

I think it's a remodel where they had left-over floor tiles so they put it on the wall (for some whacko reason).

The wall-within-a-wall actually isn't a problem since I'll just drill through the inside wall (I have a six-foot long drill bit!) to easily get to the crawl space behind it - but it 'was' a surprise to see a second wall a two-by-four's width inside of the outside wall.

Here is another picture:

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Reply to
Chuck Banshee

Thanks for all the advice!

Previously, I posted the wrong URL to the Klein tools so here's the correction with the photos:

  1. Diagram of proposed setup (based on everyone's advice!)
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  2. WISP antenna pointed at the next ridge about 2000 feet away:
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  3. Temporary "bucket router" to bring signal into house wirelessly:
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  4. Crawl space view up into the floor of the office (center of house):
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  5. Crawl space view over to the game room (far end of house):
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  6. Entry point at the office (where the office jack will be placed):
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  7. Entry point of the game room with box of cable proposed:
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  8. Klein Tools cable tester bought from Home Depot (unopened as yet):
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    At this point, my WISP provider is asking me to set the radio in "bridge" mode with a certain 10.x.y.z IP address and then to set my broadband router to +1 that IP address.

So, that's my next step. If that works (it didn't when I tried it earlier), then I will begin the permanent wiring (based on all your wonderful inputs).

This is a great team - special thanks to the key posters on alt.internet.wireless (Jeff, miso, clare, Char, Charlie, Stephen, krw, et al) and alt.home.repair (trader4, Oren, willshak, et al).

You guys make the USENET work in ways the web can't compete with!

Reply to
Chuck Banshee

No question that wired can be compromised too. But installing a tap in a wired line is IMO a big step beyond connecting to a wireless LAN. If you put up a wireless LAN with no security enabled, it can be accessed by anyone within the wireless range. Like the kid in the apartment next door. For that kid to install a tap would not only require a lot more effort, but I think in most hackers minds, actually attaching something to someone's network is something they would not do for a variety of reasons. Being a physical thing, if found, there's direct evidence of tapping, which everyone knows is a crime and more likely to get police attention. Also, while it's not true, folks have a sense that anything they can connect to wirelessly is open territory.

Reply to
trader4

Why do you have to add another cable connection between the wireless router in the office and the game room? In your house wiring plan above you clearly stated that you were installing that wiring. Otherwise what you've layed out makes sense to me.

Yes!

Now we're back to confusion land again. The line isn't dead if you're using it to connect from a port on the wireless router to an X box in the game room.

Reply to
trader4

24 gauge wire has a resistance of 2.6 ohms. If the eqpt at the far end is pulling 1 amp, you'd have a voltage drop of 2.6 volts, meaning your 15 volt source delivers 12.4 volts, which should still be OK. If it's powered from a typical wallwart power supply, I doubt it's anywhere near 1 amp so you should be fine. The label will tell you what the actual rating is

That's one thing you don't want to do!

Check the power supply and it's probably rated at a couple hundered milliamps at most and you have no problem to worry about.

Reply to
trader4

Most of the antennas out there that are installed on a metal pole in the ground probably rely on the above. If the pole goes

4 ft into reasonable soil that's probably good enough. If you want really sound protection then a real ground rod driven into the earth and connected to the mast would be additional safety. The one thing you don't want is a metal mast on say a roof that is not earthed at all.

Here's one example:

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Google is your friend.

Also, looks like you may have found a reason to put a connection in the line where it enters the house.

Reply to
trader4

Yep. A simple ferrite xformer between phases solves that problem.

It has nothing to do with the breaker box. As long as they are fed by the same transformer on the pole, it works.

Another method is the relatively new Z-wave 900Mhz devices. Whatever works, the idea is to avoid installing new wiring with the home alarm and monitor system. For example, this DIY store offers 3 types of alarm systems; wired, wireless, and hybrid.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

A loaf of bread should be eaten one slice at a time. Trying to swallow the whole loaf in one gulp doesn't work.

That's generally a good idea to:

  1. Avoid being unable to access the DSL modem diagnostics if the DHCP server in the router assigns the same IP to some computah.
  2. Being able to glue two networks together through a VPN. If they were both on the same Class C network (192.168.pick-a-number.xxx), then there's a chance of IP address duplication.

Ummm... 2 wire doesn't make any DSL modems. They make combination DSL modem/routers.

My guess(tm) is that would be a 2701HG-B. There's a fair chance you have one with a marginal power supply. See:

It also doesn't have any way to save the setup, not remote admin, and some features disabled by AT&T.

ISP's sell what they can support.

I've seen all kinds of bizarre failures that I originally attributed to the 2wire modem/router. I eventually discovered it was the power supply.

You don't seem to have much luck buying hardware. I can sympathize, but I suspect your search for the ultimate reliable router is an exercise in futility. I haven't seen one yet that I can't kill with various activities. For a while, opening too many streams would kill off those not designed for BitTorrent. Others will blow up with too much outgoing bandwidth for file sharing. Still other would die on wireless as standards evolved and were debugged. All I can suggest is that you keep is simple. Avoid features that you'll never use. Also buy from a vendor that updates the firmware for their products that they no longer sell. That eliminates 2wire, Belkin, and possibly DLink.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

At the insurance office we have 2 separate networks to each endpoint

- one for data, and one for voip. It was originally wired with 3 - the third being POTS - which we eliminated

Reply to
clare

DSL modems are AVAILABLE with a router and switch, but most telco supplied DSL modems are simple modems which provide one IP address ans signal to ONE device.

Reply to
clare

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