Verizon Wireless Collection Calls for Someone Else [Telecom]

Three nights ago, I got a phone call on my new local VOIP phone number here in Las Cruces, New Mexico. It was a recorded announcement from Verizon Wireless. The CID on the call was from the Seattle, Washington area.

It said that there was an important change of status on my account (interesting, since I've not used Verizon Wireless in a very long time). I do currently have a reseller's service that resells Verizon, but I've no direct account with Verizon and that account is completely current.

It gave me a toll-free number to call and a six digit code to dial in when I called it.

When I did, it asked me for the pin. I entered it. It asked me if I was a certain person (it was a female name, I just didn't get all of it). I selected the option that said that this person was not at that this number. The recording apologized for the inconvenience. I hung up.

When I came home tonight, there was another of the same recording on my voice mail. I called the number and entered the six digit code. I got the same routine. I accidentally punched the number one (which meant that she was ready to listen to the phone). It was a collections call. I hung up. I called back, went through the routine, and pressed the button to tell them that this person was not at this number.

I called Verizon Wireless and I got this kid named John who could make no sense out of it. I told him they were calling my home number. He couldn't find the number and insisted that it wasn't a collection call but a sales call and he could do nothing about it. He kept asking me the same questions I had already answered over and over and I admit I was getting upset with him because he couldn't seem to understand what was happening or was even paying attention to the answers I was giving him because he kept asking the same questions again and again.

I demanded to speak to his supervisor. He told me that the supervisor would only tell me the same thing he told me (which I know was untrue). I kept telling him to drop the spiel and put the supervisor on. He just kept telling me there was nothing the supervisor could do (and we know that isn't true). When I told him to knock it off and put the supervisor on the phone, he told me I'd have to hold for a half hour before a supervisor could speak to me.

I told him to have his supervisor call me at home at my cell phone number. I warned him that I'd make a complaint of telephone harrassment against Verizon Wireless if the supervisor didn't call me tonight. He said the supervisor would be calling me tonight (I'm not holding my breath).

If there is anyone from Verizon Wireless on T.D. that could help get these collection calls for another person stop, I'd appreciate it if you could email me.

Regards,

Fred Atkinson

***** Moderator's Note *****

Fred,

IANALB I'd handle it this way:

  1. Stop talking to Verizon: they're not listening. Do _not_ address them as "vaguely humanoid trolls with some resemblance to sentient beings".
  2. Write to your state's PUC and complain.
  3. Write to the FCC and complain.
  4. Write to EVERY newspaper, radio station, and TV station in your area, and complain.
  5. Write to your state representative/assemblyman/whatever, and complain.
  6. Write to your state senator. Replay previous tape.

You'll be lucky to get one reply from all this, but some of the people you write to _will_ call Verizon and ask them to explain, and you're problem will mysteriously disappear.

Bill Horne Temporary Moderator

Please put [Telecom] at the end of your subject line, or I may never see your post! Thanks!

We have a new address for email submissions: telecomdigestmoderator atsign telecom-digest.org. This is only for those who submit posts via email: if you use a newsreader or a web interface to contribute to the digest, you don't need to change anything.

Reply to
Fred Atkinson
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"Fred Atkinson" wrote

You were VERY close to talking to someone who really knows what is going on and could help you stop it......but you hung up.

First, the agency making the calls is likely NOT really Verizon but another company authorized to SAY they are (or speak on behalf of) Verizon. Thus the real Verizon people were not lying to you when they said there is (virtually) nothing they can do to help.

Second, regardless of the response to the first call, they often make a second one on the hope that somebody different will answer/respond and "tell the truth". If you keep answering "not here" the calls will stop shortly.............the ones from Verizon, that is.

Fasten your seat belt, though. Your number may have been last used by a deadbeat. I am STILL getting collection calls for the last "owner" of my home number.........5 YEARS after I took it over.

Good luck. Be polite but firm. Your beef is with the last owner of the number, not with the people trying to get money that is owed to them.

***** Moderator's Note *****

You had me until your last sentence.

His "beef" _IS_ with the collection agency that does not bother to check the easily available, frequently updated, and inexpensive list of phone numbers and names. If their software doesn't do it automatically, they need a new IT director.

Bill Horne Temporary Moderator

Please put [Telecom] at the end of your subject line, or I may never see your post! Thanks!

We have a new address for email submissions: telecomdigestmoderator atsign telecom-digest.org. This is only for those who submit posts via email: if you use a newsreader or a web interface to contribute to the digest, you don't need to change anything.

Reply to
Who Me?

I have had my home phone number since I moved over four and a half years ago; the last 'owner' obviously used it for FAXes because I received calls from FAX machines, sometimes at inconvenient hours.

After a several calls, I installed my old FAX modem and the FAX service on my PC, and received the FAXes whenever I could. For advertising FAXes, I called the removal number. For companies that sent purchase orders via FAX, I tried to get a hold of them and inform them that they had sent the order to the wrong (or, possibly, right but outdated) number. To my surprise - I didn't think the advertising people would honour my removal request, since my responding was proof that their FAXes were being received and read - the number of FAX calls fell to a negligible level.

However, even after four and a half years (plus however long the number was 'parked' before it was assigned to me), I still get the occasional FAX call.

Is this a case of people still calling an old FAX number, or do advertising jerks call random numbers hoping they'll find a FAX machine? I.e., does everyone - even those whose number was not a FAX machine in the past - get these calls from time to time?

Reply to
Geoffrey Welsh

Yes that is true but likely to be unproductive and/or self defeating 'cause one of the frequently used tactics is to put the phone in the name of a room-mate who has not YET become known for ignoring legitimate debts.

Don't get me wrong, I have NO love for debt collection agencies and their tactics but, like a lot of other unpleasant things, their very existence tends to prove that there are a LOT of scam artists out there who don't take their financial obligations seriously. If it were only a few now and then the individual companies could handle it themselves.

***** Moderator's Note *****

I have even less love for them: I've been fighting off a debt collection agency that's been trying to browbeat me into paying a bill I don't owe. It's been going on for more that six months. On principle, I refuse to pay it and refuse to give in to their intimidation and shaming.

Needless to say, I dislike this particular debt collector. Apologies to those who make a living at it, and I'm sure there are deadbeats out there, but deadbeats, by definition, haven't got money, and middle-class suburbanites do, so I think this "debt" collection agency has a very easy time arrogating money from confused parents that don't know what a balance bill is and don't know that they're illegal in this state. My son took an ambulance ride, and the ambulance company didn't like what my health insurance company thinks is "reasonable and customary", but they have a contract with my insurer, and so they're obligated to accept what was offered. They think that I can be conned into forking over hundreds of dollars that I don't owe.

I've gotten cynical on this subject: something that I thought would be cleared up by a phone call has dragged on past all logic and reason, just because a debt collector figures I'm a sucker who'll pay anything they demand, just because they know suing them would cost too much, and just because they can.

I favor stronger consumer-protection laws that also provide fewer opportunities for debtors to evade their responsibilities. I think I should have the right to charge this organization with commercial fraud, and I also think that those collecting valid debts should have better and less expensive methods at their disposal than harrassing and shaming people who really owe them money.

Bill Horne Temporary Moderator

Please put [Telecom] at the end of your subject line, or I may never see your post! Thanks!

We have a new address for email submissions: telecomdigestmoderator atsign telecom-digest.org. This is only for those who submit posts via email: if you use a newsreader or a web interface to contribute to the digest, you don't need to change anything.

Reply to
Who Me?

There is Fax machine hunters out there, when they reach a Fax machine the number is then recorded and added to a list, from that point on it is just like a Spammer, he starts using it. I get a few on my old computer line since it once had a modem on it for my BBS, which is long gone, but the line still is there. I was told that once I get rid of that number, that is if I do, then at&t will leave it unassigned for at least 5 years because it was used for a BBS.

Reply to
Steven Lichter

I graduated college in 1992 and set out on my own. Immediately after getting my new phone number I started getting calls for the "Peterson's". I assured the callers I wasn't them nor did I know them. Most gave up, but one national brand-name credit card company stopped just short of threatening me. At one point they told me it was a federal offense not to disclose the whereabouts of a person to debt collectors. I asked just what statute that was which they couldn't tell me.

Since then I have had perhaps a dozen new phone numbers between home phone, second lines, cell phones, and work numbers. With the exception of my work number and the second line that had only a modem hanging off it, I received calls from debt collectors looking for debtors for the first few weeks or months of receiving a new number. I requested a new number on one of my lines (cell phone I think) and all that did was get me calls for a different person.

I was thinking about this one. Is personal debt so out of control that odds favor getting the number of a person behind in their payments? Are people in debt just more likely to swap phone numbers and/or move to escape their creditors? Or am I just unlucky?

With all of the Big Brother software out there surely creditors could keep tabs on their debtors rather than continuing to call the same wrong number.

John

Reply to
John Mayson

The moderator wrote in news:iSmmk.6471$ snipped-for-privacy@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com:

Are you familiar with the "Fair Debt Collection Practices Act"?

See

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See also

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IANAL, but as I understand it, if the collector is not an attorney at law for the alleged creditor, nor a direct employee, of the alleged creditor, you can demand the collector stop contacting you.

The act also seems to outlaw a whole spectrum of harasing, misleading or abusive tactics including lying, making illegal threats, publicizing the debt, threatening legal action not intended to be carried out, or making a threat of legal action that has no basis in law.

My sources seem to indicate that if you win, you are entitled to actual damages AND statutory damages AND court costs and attorney's fees.

There are some tight deadlines, so you may have waived your right to relief under the act.

Reply to
R. T. Wurth

No, you're wrong. I kept calling back and punched every option. I only got different recordings. I even tried punching '0' to get a live person. It just gave me a recording saying I had selected an invalid option.

I knew that. So what else is new? That doesn't relieve Verizon of the responsibility to not harrass people who have nothing to do with some other person's debt(s.

Once they've been told that person isn't at this number, they've a resposibility to stop calling. I know there are some bumbs out there that would lie about it. But they might have a better chance of ascertaining that if they'd put a live voice on the phone when you call them or click on an option to get transferred to a live voice.

No kidding?

As Colonel Potter used to say, that is horse hockey.

That is absolutely correct about the 'beef'.

I called the other 800 number given when you selected the option that indicated that this person wasn't at that number. This time I got someone who had a brain. After discuss this with me, she told me she'd immediately remove the number. Apparently the night people work the night shift because they aren't all that good at what they do. This time I called during the day.

So far, nothing. But then, it's not been a full day yet.

Regards,

Fred Atkinson

Reply to
Fred Atkinson

Or, are dead-beat debt-skippers just making up phone #s to give out for when they do their next scam, and alot of them happen to go to your phone numbers?

I had a debt collection company calling me daily for 3 weeks or so after I had my home # already for 4-5 years. Same thing each round, tell them we never heard of that person, nobody else lived there, go away stop calling. It wasn't the name of any previous owner of the house (only had been two owners prior in total).

Reply to
Doug McIntyre

A lot of these small agencies use online services to locate people and I have found that in the most part [they have] very bad [information]. I checked [my] name, using SS# and D/L, with 2 companies paying to use an unlimited 24 hour [service], and they had information on me that was as much as 30 years out of date, including phone numbers and addresses as well as jobs I never had. I told them that fact and they told me that they always double check the information they receive [from] other souses, [but] they [would] not tell me who [their sources were]. They each issued me a refund, but would not remove or correct the data they had.

Reply to
Steven Lichter

Are there any states where it's legal to record an incoming call without notifying the caller? Because short of doing that, I don't see any way this law can ever possibly be enforced. Anyone who tries "dirties his hands" and his evidence gets thrown out.

***** Moderator's Note *****

It's always acceptable to record a call when you notify the other party, and I recommend that anyone getting a call from a bill collector do so. If they don't want to be recorded, they can hang up.

Of course, it's very easy to lie and _say_ you're recording the call, evne if you don't own a recorder, just to make sure that the minion who is wasting your time and trying to shame you thinks twice before lying to you. Those who feel this tactic is improper would, I feel, change their minds very quickly if bill collectors started calling their neighbors and saying they're a danger to the community and should be watched. I realized long ago that the people trying to extort money from me were using every trick, ruse, and lie they had in their arsenal, so I abandoned all quaint notions of playing my the Marquis of Queensbury rules.

I tell any stranger who calls that I'm not the person being asked for, and I waste as much of their time as I can by demanding to know what the call is about and exactly who is calling. When they ask for a work number, I give them the local "busy test" number for my CO. When they demand payment, I tell them I'll only speak to their attorney and demand a formal, certified demand sent over a lawyer's signature and placed in my hand by a process server. And I _always_ tell them I'm recording the call and I _always_ demand to speak to a supervisor, and I _always_ warn them that I will take legal action if they violate my rights or slander my good name.

As I've said before, I sympathize with those who make a living collecting valid debts. I've had to deal with what I hope is a rogue organization, but it has made me bitter about the whole process, and the lack of effective legal protections for those of us at the bottom of the health-care ladder.

Bill Horne Temporary Moderator

Please put [Telecom] at the end of your subject line, or I may never see your post! Thanks!

We have a new address for email submissions: telecomdigestmoderator atsign telecom-digest.org. This is only for those who submit posts via email: if you use a newsreader or a web interface to contribute to the digest, you don't need to change anything.

Reply to
John David Galt

Absolutely! Federal law only requires "one party notification" -- if _any_ party on the call knows it's being recorded, that recording is legal. A number of states have -stricter- law, as allowed by the federal statute, that requires _all_ parties to be aware of the recording.

"NOT necessarily." There's some _very_ messy case-law on that specific point.

There is also a significant difference between evidence 'admissible in a court of law', and documentation 'supporting complaint to a government agency'.

Further discussion belongs in a legal forum. ;)

Reply to
Robert Bonomi

Federal law and 38 states permit it so long as one party to the call knows. (The consent of both parties is necessary in California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington.)

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Dave

Reply to
Dave Garland

Well, even folks sending faxes *can* input a wrong number from time to time.

Certainly my number, which I've had for 40 years or more, received its share of fax calls long *before* I ever got my first fax machine a decade or so ago.

The last two I remember since installing a fax were, perhaps 5 years ago: a huge bill from a wholesale paper distributor (right number, wrong area code); and an appointment reminder from a doctor (right area code, wrong number). Both were glad to have been informed of their mistake.

So, yes: it can, and does, happen. Cheers,

-- tlvp

Reply to
tlvp

yes, me too. For a while I was getting numerous hangups that sounded like a fax machine calling me. So I plugged my computer into the phone line and turned on the fax software. Sure enough a fax came through. The called number had transposed two digits. So I called the sender and told them of their error, they thanked me, fixed their error, and no more calls.

People should be more careful dialing in fax numbers as many faxes contain confidential personal or business information, as did the faxes I got in error.

Due to HIPA, my doctor's office won't fax me anything unless I declare it is a personal fax machine to me; not a shared one for the office.

Reply to
hancock4

Like a number of other consumer protection laws, I can't help but suspect enforcing this in practice is very difficult. It would require to victim to make extensive documentation, keep caller-ID logs (which probably would be no good since the calls would be blocked or bogus), file timely legal motions, etc. It's just like illegal faxing, phone solicitation, spam, computer sabotage, etc. It's all illegal, but goes on in droves.

Reply to
hancock4

I'm not sure it's illegal to record phone calls as it once was in most states.

My old answering machine (uses tape) had a record option, in which the machine would record the call and put out the beep tone every 15 seconds. According to notices printed in the telephone directory*, that is legal notifiation the call is recorded. I've fortunately only had to use it a few times, but it was very helpful.

They make a little suction cup induction coil that attaches to a telephone receiver and plugs into a recorder. They're cheap at Radio Shack. Not as clear as a direct recording and no beep tone, but does the job. That is a good thing to have.

  • Other warnings in the directory included 1A) not reliquenshing a party line in case of emergency, 1B) claiming an emergency when none exists to gain use of a party line, and 2) giving false information to an operator for billing purposes. I don't know if these warnings are still printed; there's so much other garbage added now.
Reply to
hancock4

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