Yes, those are valid points !! I particularily like the point that we are ALL involved - no exception- and there is an onus on ALL parties to correct the situation regardless of blame. A lot of the takeovers I do involve companies that just don't give a damn about service, and it also shows in the quality of their installs. Anything which will put pressure on them to improve (or leave the business) is a go situation in my book !!
It would be interesting to get Irv to come out of hiding and elaborate on how well the Toronto situation is working in some detail.
Unfortunately .... ( and you don't know how much I hate to say this .... especially in such a great thread as this .... but) until Fat Ass stops his trashing of ASA, Irv isn't ever going to be back here. Likely due in a great part, to me. THOSE are the consequences that the group pays for his bad conduct. So be it.
It could really be a great group..... couldn't it.
That's happend to all of us. But as far as quality of equipment goes, if you ask your distributor which PIR's and other sensors are the most popular, you'll find it's not by the quality of the device but by the price that most alarm installers choose their products. I my book, the difference in the cost of a good product and a cheap one is negligible in the over all cost of an installation. I learned that too many years ago to remember.
I've head that said before about what end users have actually said about the causes of FA. However I can't help but think there's a strong possibility that since the end user is ignorant regarding the types and application of equipment they therefore might put the blame on themselves, simply because they don't know that there IS a better way or a different product or proceedure to help eliminate their misuse of the system. With lack of follow up by their installers, the installers never hear of the problems, therefore lose the opportunity to re-evaluate their installs and miss the opportunity to upgrade. As you may remember, I put out a quaterly newsletter in which I often mention new sensors or technology. ie. I started mentioning VoIP long before it became popular here. I've had relatively few calls to switch over. Those that do, are required to sign a waiver. But they all knew/know ahead of time. I always .....always remind them to test their systems in the newsletter and to call me for instructions if they've forgotten how. I've never heard of one of my "friendly" competitors doing anything of the sort.
But nothing of any consequence that would be objectionable considering what the results could bring. As I say, I wouldn't mind doing it.
This is something that would never happen because the Central already has procedures in place to not allow it to. Same zone, multiple times, within a given period, doesn't get reported. Alarm company already knows in advance, under these circumstances, only a given number of reports will be made .... That's the (CS) rule, the alarm company and the end user has to live with it.
Hypothetically, they'd lose their accounts due to better prices by those that did the right thing.
To collect fines from the Centrals? In Toronto, they do.
That's EXACTLY why the Centrals are in the control. THEY're the ones who can control just exactly what is reported and what isn't. They make the rules. They set up the filters. What ever they say goes. It's all in contract and policy that the alarm company agrees to. All centrals have the same rules. No choice but to use common sense when reporting alarms. Statistic can be gathered and response geared to cover the common causes of FA. Fining end users or alarm companys, will never garner the statistics that Centrals can and neither can you expect hundreds of individual alarm installers to come to a common agreement. With the responsibility given to the much fewer Centrals, it's more likely a common denominator could be achieved. Never mind about all this liability crap that people are constantly refering to that doesn't exist. If it's part of the agreement and conditions, and in the contract. That's all that counts. Some problems exist but the betterment of the overall FA problem would more than make up for them.
Just remember, I'm taking the devils advocate position here. I'm only speculating on what "could" happen based on the logic of what I remember Irv talking about.
Hey, I havent talked to Irv since one of the major communication seminars in Toronto some five years ago. I do know he works (or is associated in some way with API Alarms in Toronto), but other than that, I have had no contact with him.
If Irv wanted to comment, I'm sure he would have already. I think he has given up on our newsgroup .....
Yep. Irv called me a couple of years ago about a matter unrelated to the newsgroup. I asked and he indicated he had lost interested in the goings on here, mainly due to the ravings of Sabodish and Jiminex -- the same ones who've driven away most other decent folks who come to ASA. It's a pity really, considering what this newsgroup could have been.
Andy Bowman Wrote: You know better. I won't drag anyone into this that doesn't want to be, however I will post a few names that have publicly shown disdain for your actions here in the past that I pulled from 10 minutes of research on google. Mike Sabodish Sr.{Group Moderator} Jacob Ashbury {Jake, the saint} Andy Bowman Tom Fowler Jack Stevens Nomen Nescio Rodney Brittain Jim (alarmin) Marc Mazzarese Mike Dupre Thomas Gerchak VSS Doug Steve Rykeman Bryan Karas Mike Simpson (a former customer of yours) David Rosso Ray Brittain Bill Boyd Tom Brown Jerry Morin John Morgan Mikey |Horace Schmidlap Cliff Grubb James Brown (not the singer) Tom Karamichos (another former customer) Paul Rampelbergh Chris Larsen Dave Mahoney
Nick names: Urabus? Peach money_man_one q (yes, just "q")
Now, I'm sure you'll discount 5 or 6 of these right off the bat since they are current foes of yours. You'll probably also try and discount the ones using nick names as well. HOWEVER,, this is still a hell of a list full of respectable names that have publicly at one time or another shown their displeasure with the way you conduct yourself here. Can you imagine how many others think you're an ass that don't speak up? The number must be staggering.
Mike Said: There are PLENTY of OTHERS that will not speak up. They say the do not want to get involved. If Goofy seen a few of the others that he thinks is his friends BUT DESPISE his attitude -actions and ways....He would be amazed..
Does anyone have any breakout on where false alarms originate. Monitored vs local? Local monitor vs out of town monitor? next door neighbor vs passerby? Hardware vs user? private emailscan be made to waikiki at omnicast dot net MCCET_Electronic Services
I had to laugh at this one, Bob. I had a false alarm here, absentmindly armed away with the mutt inside, the station paged me, I called them back and asked them to cancel. No responding officer but I still got the fine in the mail a week or so later. It's a cash cow for the city if you ask me.
Hahaha....YOU got dinged ?? I shouldn't laugh at you really; a few years ago, I had the same thing happen. I wrote it off as a lesson learned and just part of the cost of having an alarm. But on the serious side, I realize it looked pretty bad since I'm in the business, and here I am contributing to the problem we all have to deal with. But definately a "cash cow" for the local constabulary....
And what's this "snipped because it's Bob Campbell" ? I've been trying to be good and keep my posts down to short story length at most. Guess you're saying I'm not succeeding eh ?
Cheers
RHC
PS: Drop by some time; I have a few cool ones in the fridge !!
yep, easy money. I'd challenge it if I wasn't an alarm dealer but come to think of it, I know them in there and mine is probably an isolated case. As long as they don't use it pay the Gay Pride Committee's debt, I'm okay with it.
Did I ever tell you about the visit by the paramedics? Seems two us disarmed a FBII keypad at the same time and managed to coincide hitting the 4 & 6 keys on separate keypads and sent a silent medical. There were panic buttons on the keypads and don't remember ever finding any way to disable such a stupid feature. What the f*ck are the odds of that? I'm actually quite surprised I figured it out. I bet we couldn't duplicate it if we tried. Good thing it wasn't the panics. I didn't know the Paramedics had a Psych unit. Lots o' fun.
No, I meant, I don't know why Mike was charged for a false alarm when his message implied that the cops had never arrived....
But there is no doubt, it IS a cash grab for the city. But then, living in Canada's capitol city filled with greedy, self serving politicians of all stripes, THAT comes as no surprise whatsoever.....
Well, the few that have had false alarm summons usually find the notice in their mailbox, or given to the directly - issued on the spot by the responding officer....
You answered your own question. They charged him because they could get away with it.
You guys have nothing on the USA. We've got the most crooked politician in all history. He occupies the White House at present. Fortunately, with term limits we can get rid of the bum next time.
The unbelievable destruction of our economy, the criminal war on Iraq (soon to be followed by another one against Iran), the criminal invasion of privacy by the NSA and the FBI at the orders of GW Bush and the gross mismanagement of disaster relief have sealed the fate of the Republican party for the next few elections. The Democrats are certain to take back the presidency and the House and, with any luck at all, the Senate as well over the next two elections.
Then we can start to undo the terrible damage done by Bush -- the worst administration since Caligula. The worst part is that there's no way to get rid of the bozos Bush has appointed to the USSC. They're up for life and they will certainly continue to damage the civil rights and personal freedoms of American citizens for decades to come. That will be the legacy of the jackass from Texas.
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