Elk M1G for Rehabbed House

Elk M1G (sys4 package), but am not 100% sold on it. I would like the ability to have a fairly extensively automated home eventually (a/v, lights, door latches, etc). So, my first question is, would you go with the Elk M1G?

Yes. I'm installing one in my new (to me) home, but I'm also an Elk Products dealer. :^)

The usual method is to install magnetic sensors (called "contacts") on the exterior doors and accessible windows. These are simple switches that remain closed as long as the magnet is nearby. When the door or window opens the magnet moves away, the circuit opens telling the M1 Gold control panel that there's a problem.

Magnetic contacts come in many shapes and sizes to fit almost any type of window. Better brands include Sentrol, Ademco and GRI, among others.

The choice will depend upon the specific windows you are using. Most hollow vinyl and aluminum windows have limited space to insert the magnet so you may have to use a miniature, surface mount. Most wood or wood core sashes can accomodate the magnet easily enough. There are several new "rare earth" contacts which employ a very small magnet not much bigger than a shirt collar button. These can be very useful in tight quarters.

For most interior doors, you can use a 3/8" diameter, recessed contact such as Sentrol's model 1275. If the door is a steel fire door, such as the one between the house and the garage, you can use a wide gap, surface model such as the Sentrol 1285TW. If the local fire marshal approves, you can substitute a recessed steel door sensor such as Sentrol's 1078C. Because you'd be making a hole in a rated fire door you should get approval first. Most won't care but some can be a pain.

I also like to bug the roll up garage doors. Sentrol's 2202AU works well for this application. Although it's designed to handle floor mounting, I like to put them above the door where rakes, shovels and other implements of destruction won't snare the wires.

The Elk M1G will allow you to program a different delay period for the overhead door, followed by a shorter delay on the inside door to the house. Not everyone agrees about protecting the garage door but I believe it's a good idea to keep the bad guys outside the perimeter, including the garage.

There is some disagreement as to how much value visibility has. You have to weigh the deterrent value against WAF factor*. IMO a few well-placed window stickers will be more obvious to the thief than a tiny magnetic sensor inside a window.

If your skylight is up a long "well" you can protect it with a motion detector. There's a neat little "SPY" motion detector made by a company called Visonic which can be placed inside the skylight well. It's extremely small and fits in a small hole in the drywall. As long as it's down far enough not to get direct sunlight on the detector's surface that should work very well.

If the skylight is glass you could install a glass breakage detector in the room. The better ones can cover a 25' radius. This is another subject where there is debate though. Some installers hate glass break detectors. Some use them all the time. I've installed lots of IntelliSense (now part of Honeywell) glass breaks with pretty good results. They can false if there's a really intense thunderstorm directly overhead though. Also, glass break detectors are not considered 100% secure. Changes in the room (new furnishings, heave drapes, thick carpet, etc., can reduce their effective range.

drop into the middle of the staircase). I'm not sure what to do about motion detectors as we plan to be getting a 100+ great dane and already have a 65 pound shepherd mix (and a cat ).

The motion detector that I mentioned above won't be affected by the dogs unless they can jump up into the well of the skylight. It's more of a pinpoint protection device when used in this manner. Other than that, with over 165 pounds of cainine running loose I would forget about using motion detectors.

entry way (3'x3') immediately inside the house with another, decorative door inside. Should we also arm that second door? ...

No. Just bug the outer door and if that's your primary entry point install a keypad in the little foyer.

vacant, but aren't in a position to invest in the most robust system currently. I want to plan for the future but protect today, if that makes sense...

The Elk is a modular system. You can install what you need now and add features and expansion devices as time and budget allow.

debated a motion light in the back yard/alley, but have seen many suggest that it is a waste of money.

Motion lights are probably not much of a deterrent. For one thing, most break-ins happen during the day. Also, most thieves probably already know what they are. The benefits of a motion light are convenience and a better "feeling" of security for the family. Presumably there have been cases where would-be thieves have been thwarted by a simple motion light. But I doubt they make that much difference. Use one if you like having a light come on when you go out there at night.

these areas, I'd be most appreciative. Thanks for reading and I hope to hear from you soon.

No problem. One purpose of the newsgroup is to share questions, answers and opinions about things like this. Your query is on-topic and welcome.

BTW, I mentioned several brand name products above. Those are examples that may work for your application. There are lots of competing brands that are also very good. I sell these brands (and quite a few others) online so I'm not entirely without bias.

Regards, Robert L Bass

And he is not entirely without complaints to the Better Business Bureau Consumer Beware.......

That was Robert's own question and answer session. Did you notice that he is fantasizing that he actually installs. That little tip about the "Spy" in the skylite well shows his lack of practical experience. It will false like hell. The biggest thing is that he is supporting and selling a product that isn't "UL" listed, when he recommends the ELK M1G. Not knocking the product and it has been a work in progress, but after it was first introduced at the ISC show in Orlando, a few years ago, you would think it would have been approved by now. I know Wade Moose is frustrated about the product not having the approval yet, but for some reason they can't get it done. Did you not know this, Robert, or is it that you just don't care and say, "hey, a sale is a sale." (More below)

news: snipped-for-privacy@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... So, my first question is, would you go with

Did you get a permit to install it Robert? If not, I can make sure an electrical inspector stops by to inspect it for you, (tax records will show us your new address) and they will make you tear it out, first for not pulling a permit and second because it isn't an approved panel. But than again, you probably don't care because I doubt you installed one anyway. Stop BS'ing everyone Robert.

Mr. Bass wrote in a previous post re: UL.......

"the most respected standards writer in the nation".

Looks like you stuck your foot in your mouth again Mr. BAss. Pushing non-UL systems are you?

Another reason for the buyer to beware.....

Norm Mugford

Hey!!!! I like my Elk M1G!! It even brews coffee! You can set it for "French Roast" or "African Blend". I've heard Robert's talking to tech support about getting them to include a "Brazilian Medium Roast" and a "Decaf" as well... :-)

Hmmm, The M1G wasn't all that great on the first run... They (ELK) pulled a Bill Gates, you know, just get it out we'll fix the bugs later :-))

I do appreciate the helpful information provided by everyone on the Elk, limited as it may be. I have a suggestion, instead of jumping in on every thread Robert Bass writes on, you may consider actually contributing something to the forums. While I have my reservations about buying from Bass, at least he was willing to take a minute to post a helpful reply. You all may choose to argue that his advice is meaningless drivel, but at least it is advice and on topic with what I requested.

Once again, I am grateful for the contributions you have all made, but it would be more helpful to me (and the many other threads that have suffered the same fate) if this could remain a forum that discusses the merits of different alarm systems rather than the merits of the people that contribute to the forum.

Thank you all and I do hope you might find the time to offer more input.

Have a very happy holiday season.

But, does it have a "burger maker"??????

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?

No... K-Tel beat 'em to it... Remember the "paddi-stacker" ads on TV??

"Bob Worthy" a écrit dans le message de news: YQTqf.3129$ snipped-for-privacy@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

Bob do it please, pretty please,give us all here a good Christmas gift....

Or if you cant make it by the 25,our new year would start on a pretty good mood if you do it after the 1st..

Anyway,in the mean time I just wish you a merry Christmas,and an happy new year

The panel doesn't have that much exposure in the market place as of yet. Automation systems are the big rage but not everyone is jumping in. I think there is a "wait and see" line of thinking going on.

I have a suggestion, instead of jumping in

Big difference between contributing to the forum, which most do with their own strengths, and keeping RLB's comments in line with where he really stands in the industry. Alot of what goes on is that some feel a need to warn newbies about RLB's past and his business ethics. Others have an on going problem with his off line antics, which sound rather vicious, if true. Others have a problem with his holier-than-thou attitude about **every** subject matter. Some have problems with his perpetual need to disagree or pick apart every other contribution other than his own. And then there are some that don't give a rat's bASS about him and do it for kicks and giggles.

Is it because of what you may have learned here about his past and business ethics?

at least he was willing to take a minute to

And promote his web business, which isn't the purpose of this NG

You all may choose to argue that his advice is

That isn't true. When he is responding with worthwhile information it is usually on target. It is just when he makes it sound like it is his own or from his personal experience, that people get upset because some know better.

That won't happen as long as there is disruption stemming from the actions of some of the participants. That is what happens in an open forum.

And good luck with your project. Don't go away because of the above. You'll find spotted help here. Just pick and choose what is helpful and what is playground joisting.

Stay safe!

Couldn't tell by looking at the design of a Z1100...

(running for cover)

It was a good panel for its day and there are many many still out there. We're talking the mid 80's here. It was one of the first to go into a new generation of alarm panels. Sure, times have changed and the industry has moved on, but it was a work horse panel. Nothing really wrong with it other than personal preferences.

It was a GREAT panel: fully programmable zones, 2 entry delay timers, user changeable codes, keypad programmable, a mess of onboard outputs, (and no need to program them, just connect the appropriate wire from the J-16 connector to an onboard relay), plenty of power (900ma), a large sturdy can, a power-down switch, and a motherboard that unplugs from the can. I thought that feature would come in real handy, but it turns out I had to replace only 3 or 4 boards, and I put a boatload (pun intended for Mark) of them in. I still have a bunch of them out there, sending me money regularly.

A couple of drawbacks were that end users seem to have a hell of a time figuring out the l.e.d. keypads, and while communicating, the panel will no readily accept keypad entries. js

Yep, and again, that panel was one of the new ones introducing a new generation of alarm panel technology.

If it isn't a key, the end user has a hard time figuring out any manufactures keypad. The whole *door open, or door closed* thing did get them confused though. I still have a crap load of old boards and keypads stuffed somewhere. I need to go through them and see what is good and/or bad. Maybe Jim R. would be interested in them.

I always told them the * key is their friend, the problem with keypad entries while communicating seems to be because the keypad is also beeping and pressing *stops it enough to easily turn the system off

The biggest drawback to me is need to press 1 then the code to turn it on and off which always confuses the hell out of the customers when they change codes, and the non-ability to have a 0 in any part of the code except the beginning. Biggest drawback of course is that its a Moose panel

Wow, did a moose **Shmit** in your yard at one time or another?

He's just mad because the can was too big to fit in the trunk of his Chevette. js