First, is it possible to run Swann security camera (black, shielded, power/audio/video in one) wire along side 12-2 romex. I'm wiring security cameras and external motion lights and it would be much easier to run this pair of wires side by side. Is there any problem doing so?
Second, I've read plenty of info that specifies if you have to cross Cat-5 wires with electric wire you cross the two wire perpendicularly. However, in an older home where there's only a small chase to get wires to their destination there's bound to be a place where the wires are side by side. Can you wrap the low voltage wires with foil or something to shield them? Is this necessary for short points of contact? Is this the same for speaker/security or coax wire?
Don't do it. Code requires separation for safety. For optimal performance stay 12" minimum from 110VACD and 24" from 220VAC. Cross at right angles where necessary. That said, it's ok to run close and parallel for a few feet, say up a wall to a light switch. But farther than that keep your distance.
For short distances necessary to get to a service point from the main run, it's ok to stay under 12" away. Don't run the two types abutting each other though.
As long as your cable is shielded, I don't see that there's going to be much of a problem for "short distances". Terminate your shield properly though or your efforts will wind up like a Bass rant about Bush. On many existing jobs where you're trying to route low voltage wire you're bound to come across situations where parallel runs next to 110VAC are unavoidable. Try and keep them separated as best as you can.
What "Code" would that be?? NEC?? Ten Commandments? Uniform Code of Military Justice? Pirates Code?? NFPA?? Chapter and verse, please.
BAss, you're a moron. So you have to maintain separation for safety (according to Code)... yet it's "OK to run close and parallel for a few feet" (which is *against* Code)... Your mental faculties must be on hiatus. This has got to be one of the dumbest things I've seen you post. "Don't do it, but it's OK if you do"... Right, Bass.
NEC requires a minimum 2" separation between high voltage (110VAC) and low voltage (communication grade) cabling. If you're running communication grade wire down a wall which also happens to have a light switch, it's going to be darn difficult to maintain that separation unless you cut out the dry wall and physically staple the wire. Most alarm installers (primates to BAss) recognize this and will use separate wall entry points from any AC wiring that's terminated or run in the same wall cavity. Electrical inspectors will look for this. They don't bring the X-Ray equipment out to ensure any wiring you've run inside the wall complies with NEC.
He shouldn't have a problem using shielded wire. The "rule" (code to you) is to maintain a 2" separation.
Thanks for the tips. I've been trying to maintain separation in all cases but as several mentioned, it's nearly impossible in an older (late 1800's) home to do this in all cases. 12" of separation sounds ridiculous especially when studs are often 16" or less on center. You can only drill so many holes before you are doing more structural damage than necessary. I thought about testing it by wrapping some low voltage wire around some hot romex and testing throughput on the low voltage. Has this been done and published before?
"Testing?" *Experience* demonstrates that you should maintain a larger separation than the 2" required by NEC. When we do custom pre-wires, we
*always* go in *after* the electrician has completed his. This ensures that we can maintain maximum separation (and minimize potential problems with interference). When you're renovating an existing house, it's a little more difficult but experience and "common sense" will ensure you "win" in the end. If you lack the experience part, asking in a forum like this will help. There are a large number of experienced home automation specialists here. Bruce R., Bill Kearney, Dave Houston to name a few (although Bill and I don't quite see "eye to eye" regarding Bass and frequently butt heads). :-)
You're using shielded wire (or at least that's what you've indicated). You shouldn't have a problem.
Sorry you got treated to the abusive post from my stalker. Perhaps I should have been more clear when I said it's OK to run close and parallel for a few feet. By that I meant closer than one foot
but as several mentioned, it's nearly impossible in an older (late 1800's) home to do this in all cases. 12" of separation sounds ridiculous especially when studs are often 16" or less on center. You can only drill so many holes before you are doing more structural damage than necessary. I thought about testing it by wrapping some low voltage wire around some hot romex and testing throughput on the low voltage. Has this been done and published before?
So... calling *you* a dummy for posting nonsense like: "Don't do it, but it's OK sometimes" is "stalking". I suppose that's one of your weird "codes" as well. :-)
but as several mentioned, it's nearly impossible in an older (late 1800's) home to do this in all cases. 12" of separation sounds ridiculous especially when studs are often 16" or less on center. You can only drill so many holes before you are doing more structural damage than necessary. I thought about testing it by wrapping some low voltage wire around some hot romex and testing throughput on the low voltage. Has this been done and published before?
ago. Some time later an someone else ran new 110VAC cables right next to one of my keypad (data) runs. Every so often one of the keypads would operate erratically. It didn't start happening immediately and it wasn't all the time either.
and left. Shortly thereafter I got a call that the system was still having problems. The panel seemed OK because the other keypads were working. Upon investigation I found the new Romex cable lying practically on top of my data cable. I moved my cable over a couple of feet and the problem was solved.
couldn't fix problems. If the client mentioned keypads not responding or giving wrong indications, we'd disconnect the data cables and meter them. On a fair number of occasions we found AC voltage being inducted into the security system cables. Almost invariably rerouting a few cables solved the problems.
Sebastian Shallus, brother of Jacob Shallus. History buffs will tell you how old that house is. It was moved a number of years ago to North Canton, Connecticut. If you need help figuring ways to wire an older home I'd be glad to share some techniques with you. I promise not to suggest anything that will weaken the structure. Call when you have some time (my phone is in my sig line) and I'll try to help.
This is another installation fairy tale. If AC inductance was present on *ANY* of the keypad "data runs", it would affect the entire system (and not just one or two keypads). The keypad data connection (or keybus) is a common termination point on every alarm system manufactured. A measurable AC voltage (which Bass goes on to state he had) on a single "data line" would therefore "crash" the entire system. If you believe this man can really "help" you, then I have a bridge you can buy.
Sorry you got treated to the abusive post from my stalker. Perhaps I should have been more clear when I said it's OK to run close and parallel for a few feet. By that I meant closer than one foot -- not closer than 2 inches.
To recap, do not run high and low voltage services next to each other. Keep them as far apart as you can for optimum performance. You don't need lots of holes, but you can not run low and high voltage cables through the same holes. That's a no-no (code to some; law to others; call it what you like but don't do it).
The test you're considering probably won't tell you what will happen long term if you run low voltage cables next to high voltage runs. Everything may appear just fine at first but give problems later. For example, I installed a security system in an older home in CT years ago. Some time later an someone else ran new 110VAC cables right next to one of my keypad (data) runs. Every so often one of the keypads would operate erratically. It didn't start happening immediately and it wasn't all the time either.
On the first call I simply swapped out the pad, checked to see if it was OK and left. Shortly thereafter I got a call that the system was still having problems. The panel seemed OK because the other keypads were working. Upon investigation I found the new Romex cable lying practically on top of my data cable. I moved my cable over a couple of feet and the problem was solved.
I've also serviced numerous systems which we took over from competitors who couldn't fix problems. If the client mentioned keypads not responding or giving wrong indications, we'd disconnect the data cables and meter them. On a fair number of occasions we found AC voltage being inducted into the security system cables. Almost invariably rerouting a few cables solved the problems.
I've wired quite a few older homes, John. One of them originally belonged to Sebastian Shallus, brother of Jacob Shallus. History buffs will tell you how old that house is. It was moved a number of years ago to North Canton, Connecticut. If you need help figuring ways to wire an older home I'd be glad to share some techniques with you. I promise not to suggest anything that will weaken the structure. Call when you have some time (my phone is in my sig line) and I'll try to help.
What I still don't get is where I was "abusive" to the OP. As for "stalking" BAss... He's the centre of my universe. The Grand Poobah of my tribe. I archive everything he writes. "Bass-speak" is our holy language and to "Bassify" a system means it's "holy" useless.
Please, arguments aside, I appreciate all the advice. I understand that in the best situation you would run all low voltage wires as far away from high voltage as possible.
But, if you absolutely had to run an unshielded CAT5 cable side by side for a short run (behind a switch, in a hole etc) can you wrap the wire with a material to shield it?
Perhaps I wasn't being clear. If not I apologize. If it's that short a run, just connect it. It won't hurt anything to install the device close to 110VAC wires and it won't matter if the two are parallel for a short distance. I meant that you shouldn't run the cables side by side from point to point. They can go behind or next to electrical boxes, etc.
Note to Frank Olson:
Please refrain from turning every thread into a flame war. I'm not interested in dialoguing with you. Everyone already knows you don't like me and they've probably figured out by now that I'm not fond of you either. When you spoil every thread with personal insults you are not hurting me but you are ruining this newsgroup. There are a lot of people who post here looking for assistance or trying to assist others. You hurt them (not to mention your own image) by continuing the nonsense. So please, for the benefit of the rest here, give it a rest.
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