Re: Help with 7 Circuit Project?

Yeah, what HE said! :-) (About HAI's Prolink indeed working with the CPU-XA)

I will be cracking open the LT tomorrow so I'm going to review the manuals tonight to see what's what. It will be nice if the HAI unit can work together with the CPU-XA. That's a bonus I had not counted on.

-- Bobby G.

"Brett Griffin" wrote

[Re: designing a new, improved, door rattling Robodog:]

Mr. R.L. Bass gets enough shaking around here! (inside joke)

watching a movie.

Way too expensive! :-) I'm a scrounge builder. I've got some old 10" stereo speakers whose coils are good but whose cones are shredded. While they're not worth re-coning they might be able to transmit some bumps and rattles if I can figure out how to drive them properly. Hmmm . . .

-- Bobby G.

There's an ASCII protocol for the CPU-XA that will let you send X-10, IR, set variables, etc. You can have the Omni send these over a serial link to the CPU-XA to directly control it. If you don't have it, it should be available on ADI's web site.

You can also def>Yeah, what HE said! :-) (About HAI's Prolink indeed working with the >CPU-XA)

The Omni LT is limited to 16 messages, which is the downfall, but if you got creative you could use combinations of messages to have more functionality.

The downfall of the Omni LT is it is too limited when you are really excited about automating many things...

The Omni Lt only has one "If" statement but you can combine lines with flags to have more than one condition. Than again you only have 100 lines of programming. But HAL 2000 would expand this, but for the cost of HAl and another $100 bucks you have an Omni Pro II.

Brett

Brett wrote about his training video/program:

Proprietary format? Hmmmmm. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Does it run under Unix? What needs to be installed under Windows to get it to work? Is Captivate going to annoy me to death with upgrade reminders like some other, similar programs did? (Until I booted them off into deep space, that is!)

Well, here's your first NEGATIVE feedback. If you're trying to sell me something, make it easy for me to evaluate the quality of the product. Put something in a format that's not protected or proprietary.

Right now, I'm sorry to say you haven't interested me enough to want to download and install yet another flipping program I may never use just to evaluate your product. It feels a little like fancy Active-X sites that scold me for not being able to see their demos because I don't use Internet Explorer. Don't vendors know there are 100 other sites that have the same content? I simply click on to another site that doesn't force me to comply with their terms.

It seems to me if you created something that had your logo, business and copyright information prominently displayed and played in a standard format it might promote your business better. Yes, it will be copied and passed around, but that may not be such a bad idea for your consulting business. Buts it's your call.

It's sad that adware and spyware have made many people reluctant to explore new software, but that's what's happened. By now there probably aren't many people who *haven't* installed a shareware app like Kazaa that ending up infesting their machine with scumware or worse. In this day and age, when you ask someone to run a program you're providing, you're asking them to trust you. I'm one of those "In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash and Must Submit to a Strip Search" kinda guy. :-)

-- Bobby G.

"Brett Griffin" wrote in

I've been looking at some inexpensive video servers that take RCA line level video and audio connections (from a HQ bullet cam) and offer:

Access Via Web Browser Auto Network Reconnection (ANR) Upgrade firmware via The Internet Watch dog function supported Dynamic IP support 4 alarm inputs supported Duplex function, record and playback Auto e-mail warning system Intelligent non-stoppable recording Multi AP screens supported

How do you think HAI's Weblink compares in stats and prices? I've seen the Vitek unit for under $200. It has the enormous advantage, if I read you correctly, of not requiring a PC for anything but setting the unit up. If you have a cable modem, it should just sit there and serve video without eating up juice powering a whole PC. Something like this would run a lot longer on battery backup and would reset (hopefully) far more quickly than the average PC. Trusting a Wintel machine to manage home security is not, IMHO, a very good idea. Too many potential bad outcomes.

(in connection with another thread, I've just tried to view the WeblinkII demo at:

and get the message:

Weblink II Demo (must turn off popup blocker)

Yeah, right, bub. You want to sell me something but I have to drop my PC's protection to look at it. Dream on, dream on, Intelligent Home Solutions. Another case of "we want to show you what fancy programmers we are!" The sales pitch apparently is secondary. How intelligent can their houses be if their website is so smart it's stupid? )

That's another advantage of the Vitek box. It sounds like you merely set up the email address and some configuration options and it's on line and working. Now comes the tricky part. How do I do this in live action? Well, once I get my hands on the video server, I'll know more of what it can do.

-- Bobby G.

"Brett Griffin" wrote in

I can understand that. But it's somewhat antithetical to the concept of Usenet. My suggestion would be to discuss away, but with constant reminders of the potential bad consequences and maybe a few liability disclaimers thrown in.

Hey, you're talking to the guy most often zinged in CHA for warning people not to go mucking around a 240VAC breaker panel without a decent understand of electrical wiring. I saw warn away but discuss away, too. The problem with one-on-one is that no one else reads the exchange so there's less review of the information. It would seem to me that's more dangerous because it eliminates an important sanity check from the process. I've learned an awful lot following threads where there has been a diversity of approaches and potential solutions.

I've got a lot of ideas I want to explore. I am going to get an Omni for my folks, too. My dad's now in a powerchair and I want to be able to program the alarm to warn him if he's forgotten to plug it into the charger for the night. I also want to do mundane things like check to see if the garage door is closed, the doors are locked, etc. As I plan them out, I'll be sure to seek your input.

I was going to try to move some things from the Adicon box to the Omni simply because I need more IR storage space. I know I could upgrade to the Ocelot or Leopard but for now, it's not really a pressing need to free up more Adicon space.

I thought the LT would be a good place to start with the Omni line. I realize it's underpowered but I could buy two of them for the price of the Omni II. Given that all I really want from the Omni is dial-out alarm capability and X-10 light flashing, I think it will serve my needs.

I've been looking at some inexpensive video servers that take RCA line level video and audio connections (from a HQ bullet cam) and

Access Via Web Browser Auto Network Reconnection (ANR) Upgrade firmware via The Internet Watch dog function supported Dynamic IP support 4 alarm inputs supported Duplex function, record and playback Auto e-mail warning system Intelligent non-stoppable recording Multi AP screens supported

How do you think HAI's Weblink compares in stats and prices? I've seen the Vitek unit for under $200. It has the enormous advantage, if I read you correctly, of not requiring a PC for anything but setting the unit up. If you have a cable modem, it should just sit there and serve video without eating up juice powering a whole PC. Something like this would run a lot longer on battery backup and would reset (hopefully) far more quickly than the average PC. Trusting a Wintel machine to manage home security is not, IMHO, a very good idea. Too many potential bad outcomes.

That's another advantage of the Vitek box. It sounds like you merely set up the email address and some configuration options and it's on line and working. Now comes the tricky part. How do I do this in live action? Well, once I get my hands on the video server, I'll know more of what it can do.

Proprietary format? Hmmmmm. Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Does it run under Unix?

Well, here's your first NEGATIVE feedback. If you're trying to sell me something, make it easy for me to evaluate the quality of the product. Put something in a format that's not protected or proprietary.

Right now, I'm sorry to day you haven't interested me enough to want to download and install yet another flipping program I may never use just to evaluate your product. It feels a little like fancy Active-X sites that scold me for not being able to see their demos because I don't use Internet Explorer. Don't vendors know there are 100 other sites that have the same content? I simply click on to another site that doesn't force me to comply with their terms.

It seems to me if you created something that had your logo, business and copyright information prominently displayed and played in a standard format it might promote your business better. Buts it's your call. It's sad that adware and spyware have made many people reluctant to explore new software, but that's what's happened. By now there probably aren't many people who

*haven't* installed a shareware app like Kazaa that ending up infesting their machine with scumware or worse. In this day and age, when you ask someone to run a program you're providing, you're asking them to trust you. I'm one of those "In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash and Must Submit to a Strip Search" kinda guy. :-)

-- Bobby G.

Well the Weblink has its own purpose. It was to control and access a home control system. Video was a secondary thought, and is for the homeowner who has one exisiting modulated camera. It is not hard to come up with a reason, that make any other web video software a btter choice. Weblink is about having everything you need in one application hosted from your home PC.

Personally, on a side note, I have used Weblink for a number of years, and it is nice for me cell phone interface via a browser. However PC Access and Weblink are combersome for operating your home via a PC in your home. For these reasons, I am announcing my own software hopefully on monday, that allows you to control your ethernet based HAI/OnQ/Aegis system from a simple menu in your system tray. I am very excited about this one as I had asked the president of HAI for all three years working for him to develop it and he never did, So I teamed up and did it.

I have a version of the training in Windows, Mac, and Linux.

You do not have to download anything except for the training. click on the download in your OS, and watch when you are done, keep it or delete it. It is actually using Flash or shockwave, but again that is there own software anyways. So no worries, you dont need to download any drivers or anything, it is all self -contained, and just click and watch. Linux version available for download.

No active-x crap or anything. The program is very simple non-invasive, no spyware crap, no virus, nothing to complain about except for me...LOL Just my voice, take it or leave it. I even provided an uninstall to delete it for you...lol

Brett

programming

There is nothing to worry about on this one. No drivers, no files to download, nothing except for the training.

I provided it as an exe option for simplicity.

Linux, MAc and Windows are available.

I promise there is none no and will never have any spyware, adware, maleware, or anything else badware....

This is as simple as an MP3, but an mp3 or mpg cant support me showing you how to use software and provide an interactive way to do it...

Brett

That's true. I guess my question is more of "if I spend the money on Weblink, will it at least do a credible job of what I need done? Then I can see if it provides other benefits as well.

Of course, the sticky point is "what do I need?" Sometimes, a simple requirements analysis isn't enough. In things like this it's always a good idea to find out what the various alternatives offer. Weblink may, indeed have something to offer that I don't even know I need until I need it! :-)

I wonder why? Did he ever give a reason?

Sounds interesting. Keep us filled in.

Well, hopefully you'll sell some. Maybe someone here in CHA has DL'ed it and looked at it. I'll try to, when I get a chance. I don't load any new software, as a rule, just to take a look at a product. I guess Marketing

101 really had an effect on me. "If you make your ad hard to see, you're defeating the purpose of advertising."

Take a look at:

He manages to present an ENORMOUS amount of information in nothing more than stock, out-of-the-box, plain HTML code. The punch is in the content, not what delivers it. I guess I'm old-fashioned and like well-designed, well-implemented sites like Dr. Cheung's that don't require anything other than a standard web browser to view. The further away from this "gold standard" a website or technical information gets, the less interested I am in seeing it.

Now it's clear that Dr. Cheung has nothing to sell (but if he did, I'd buy it!) He puts his information out "pro bono" and it is indeed, "for the good" of the entire HA community. Dave H. maintains a similarly well-illustrated and carefully thought out set of pages. I realize you're coming from a different perspective. Even so, it would be very enlightening to thoroughly familiarize yourself with their works. I learn something new each time I visit.

-- Bobby G.

Unfortunately, combined messages would just be gibberish to the CPU-XA. It can only recognize those already defined by its protocol. It can transmit arbitrary ASCII messages.

The CPU-XA has far more functionality so it makes more sense to let it do the logic and decision making. It would be possible to send X-10 commands via the powerline that could be used to trigger other CPU-XA actions but this does increase powerline traffic.

It does a great job of giving you remote access, control, and status of anything hooked up to your Omni system. If you have a windows based OS, like Xp, Pocket PC, or Smartphone, you can view and control your home.

Well discussing with some other insiders, it really came down to it is a good idea and at some point it would be nice, but Touchscreens, Lightswitches, and targeting other markets is more important to spend money on company resources. BTW, HAI is working on getting out nicer software, but how long it takes we shall see...

I will be sending out a press release in the next couple of days. Unlike HAI I am trying to keep the cost affordable. It is planned to be under $30. The initial release will support Ethernet based devices. Next quarter we plan to support the serial connection for the Omni Pro, Omni, Omni II, and the Omni LT.

I am working on integrating it as a web based training. But that will take some time, and maybe by mid month you can view the training online. In the future products like PC Access it will be more fractional than one big training. I like the way other companies have broken it down so each training is a short concise step like, setting up names and voices, or adding phone numbers. So you don't have to sit thru a long presentation to get the 30 seconds of instruction you are looking for at that moment.

Thanks for the link, I will definitely takes some notes....

-- Brett Griffin, Technology Consultant Architechtronics, Inc. get to know home technology

*Home of "fidoh" for HAI/OnQ/Aegis **keep up on cutting-edge technology... join "the EDGE" for free at

I liked the idea of being able to run/check up on the house via a Pocket PC or a smartphone.

That sounds good. Most video training I've used has been sort of background stuff. By that I mean if I am in the shop, doing something boring, I'll watch/listen to a training video so that I can learn by osmosis. This discussion's inspired me to whip out the old DV camera to film the installation process of the LT.

Speaking of the LT, is there any way to use a larger battery than the one they recommend or is the built-in charging circuit limited to the size specified (too small, IMHO)? I suppose I could plug the line transformer into a UPS but it always seems wasteful to generate 110VAC only to transform and rectify it back down to 12VDC. It's not a really big issue since I've already put a UPS in the wiring closet to handle the DoorFon, but I would like to just put a bigger battery in than what they've recommended.

On a similar topic, can you tell me why UL regs insist that sounders draw approximately 2/3 less current than the LT can support?

I still haven't drawn up the diagrams of how the DoorFon will be interconnected with the LT. If I understood Bruce Robin, it will look like this:

Phone Network RJ31X DoorFon House

--------------------> ---------------> ----------->

Interface Line Seizure Connection Phones Jack (to Omni)

Dr. Cheung's done some pretty amazing things with HA. Every time I go to his site, there's something I see that I really must have. This time around it was his system of using a single maxicontroller to use all 256 house/unit codes. Ingenious! Also, I learned how to DL text weather messages from the NWS.

-- Bobby G.

Dave Houston and Brett Griffin discussed the Omni LT and the CPU-XA:

functionality.

You've hit the nail on the head. With the CPU-XA around, I have very little reason to have an alarm system to do HA stuff. I wanted to make sure the LT understood X-10 and could work with it, but it wasn't going to be the primary automation controller.

Aside from being too limited for HA control (at least the LT version) it violates the KISS design principle. I want the security system to be quick and reliable. The more it has to do (besides security) the more likely it is to encounter problems. I'm not adverse to something like the CPU-XA having a "vote" in a security decision, (i.e. - has the HA system detected something that could be a security breach? If so, inform the LT that a possible intrusion condition exists. I hope to be able to design a system that doesn't generate false alarms, ever.

On a side note, I've had only one false alert in over 10 years with the ADT system. As a result, the police response time was incredibly fast (less than five minutes). Apparently that response time drops in proportion the amount of false alarms a system generates. That's why I want to make sure when the call goes out that it's a real intrusion.

-- Bobby G.

It is fun, I really enjoy my MPX-220, it works nicely to interact with my home, it is not too big, and syncs with outlook, a great time saver with a new phone. I bought mine unlocked on eBay for $300, works on T-Mobile, Cingular, and Sprint I think...

I think they recommend a 4A/Hr, I usually use an 8Amp/HR. You can go bigger, that is the size the got the UL approval done with. If you go too big, than you have to get external charger setup, and you need to discuss this with Tech Support.

UL requires them to operate the system for 24 hours and than operate in an alarm state for 4 mins. They probably chose a amp draw they could satisfy the UL requirements with.

This diagram was a little confusing (it is 2am though) However, ensure the telco is Demarc to DSL Splitter/Filter (if needed) RJ-31x, and then Doorphone. If the door phone is between the HAI and the demarc, than conceivably the system could be trying to call central monitoring while someone rings the door bell and that would be bad. The DSL splitter/filter allows one connection for a DSL modem and filters the rest of the house, if you do not filter, most security systems get screwy with the DSL noise...

-- Brett Griffin, Technology Consultant Architechtronics, Inc. get to know home technology

*Home of "fidoh" for HAI/OnQ/Aegis **keep up on cutting-edge technology... join "the EDGE" for free at

Although HAI does a lot of Home Automation Security is #1 in priority within its system architecture, and it performs exceptionally well in all aspects. I have not heard of in the 3 years managing sakes and training, of HAI having any involvement in False alarms. My understanding is most false alarms are do to human error and bad sensors.

Is this a true statement?

-- Brett Griffin, Technology Consultant Architechtronics, Inc. get to know home technology

*Home of "fidoh" for HAI/OnQ/Aegis **keep up on cutting-edge technology... join "the EDGE" for free at

Good, I'll look for one.

"51 items found for MPX-220 in Phones Only"

That's a good selection for Ebay! They're about $320 unlocked for Buy It Now so if I wait for auction, I can get it for less. I want to be able to check up on the status of the house when travelling, and doing that through a smartphone seems to be the best option these days.

If you made sure a larger battery was fully charged externally and then hooked it in, I would expect that the trickle charge circuit would keep it topped off. I would, however, expect trouble just hooking one in, though or after the main battery discharged. I've got a number of deep discharge electric wheelchair batteries that were rated at 40AH new, but have lost a little bit of their pep. This would be a good use for them. If 4 AH will run the panel for a day, 40AH should run it for at least a week. I guess I had better figure out where HAI tech support lives and how to access it.

Sounds logical to me. Worthington recommends Elk sounders because of their very low current draw per decibel of whoop.

splitter/filter

No DSL - already a RJ31X for the ADT panel in place. Just nervous there's going to be an unintended interaction between the LT and DP since I didn't install the RJ31X and worse, still, the phone line they will be installed on is not grounded as specified in the HAI manual.

I may have to rethink location of the panel based on which phone line I choose to connect it to. When my area switched from 7 to 10 digit dialing the alarm techs reprogrammed the central number but not the maintenance number and while I was away, it kept seizing the line to report low battery but never connecting because it was dialing only 7 digits. SWMBO was NOT happy. The people they sent to reprogram it in the first place were probably flipping burgers the month before.

-- Bobby G.

On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 17:57:33 -0400, "Brett Griffin" wrote (with possible editing):

FWIW, the first thing they need to do is to enable comments in programming for the Omni series. That is SO basic. As it is right now, long programs are a bear to debug. Then, they should enable the full set of logical operators, etc...

HAI Tech support, 800-229-7256, it is ingrained in my mind...lol