I just bought an insteon starter kit to replace my x10 system. After I set it up, I discover there is a delay between pressing the button on the remotelink and the light turning on/off. This is one of the things I hate about x10. Very disappointed insteon also has this problem.
Does z-wave have this delay?
Hi Peter,
The response in my system of three different INSTEON RF remotes controlling a dozen INSTEON devices is nearly instantaneous. I am _very_ pleased. Truly "INSTANT-ON ". Much better than X-10 in my experience. INSTEON has issues, but RF remote response lag isn't one of them in my experience.
*** A#1 ** : You are using INSTEON in the INSTEON, NOT X-10 mode, right?Also,
2) And you have you removed all the old X-10 stuff, right?3) And you don't have RF interference in the 900 mhz
4) And you have performed an initial of the "kit" (which one ?) with the remote, receiver and light being controlled in the same room ?You haven't described your system in sufficient detail to know what the issue(s) might be. Give us a bit more to work with. You may be experiencing more hops than necessary. And as with all RF remote control, there are range limitations.
(I have no experience with Z-wave. Typically there will be one or more folks in comp.home.automation who also haven't, but who will express their judgment nonetheless ...)
... Marc
Visit my ongoing Home Automation and Electronics Internet Porch Sale at
Marc_F_Hult
Bruce,
Yup ;-) I shoulda mentioned the phase ("leg") requirement.
My experience is similar yours. In the bedroom setup where everything is physically and electrically close together, the 'delay' is virtually imperceptible -- comparable to the travel time of the switch being depressed. By the time my finger is quite convinced that the button is fully pushed, the ON or OFF has happened.
... Marc
Visit my ongoing Home Automation and Electronics Internet Porch Sale at
Marc_F_Hult
...and knows nothing about anybody else but will be quick give you **his** opinion of what they might post despite you not giving a shit what he thinks somebody else will think.
But this is his "in" to advertise and promote his own sales, in disguise.
Marc_O_Cult is called a "Spamming toll". His accuracy leaves much to be desired.
No it does not. You can command a whole house off almost instantaneously.
The bandwidth is wonderful, especially when compared to X-10.
Don't know. Whatever the default is. I followed the quick setup that comes with the kit. It doesn't even say anything about x-10 mode or insteon mode.
I still have an X-10 wireless receiver plugged in. I unplugged it and the result is the same.
Have a 900Mhz phone but is off at the time of experiment.
Yes. One access point on each phase of the house wiring. One access point is in the same room, another is in a different room. The kit with two access points, two plug-in lamplincs, and a silver color remotelinc.
The delay is not as pronouce as with x10. It's tolerable, but I was hoping to replace the x10 with a "perfect" (perfect for me) home control system. I guess I'd have to buy a z-wave starter kit to test.
If you get serious about Z-wave most likely you will end up with a Leviton Viza based solution. You may want to start with their stuff first.
Shouldn't all z-wave products work the same??
I see some new Intermatic z-wave starter kit selling for under $40 on ebay. It's irresistable. The same kit sells for $130 on smarthome. Why the large price discrepency?
For clarity's sake, that's Leviton Vizia. Leviton does have an extensive line of ZWave lighting controls. I've sold them to a number of clients using ELK's M1 home automation system and several who use HomeSeer. From feedback we've received so far there have not been any problems other than occasional shipping delays at first. That seems to have smoothed out though.
I plan to use Leviton Vizia, both Z-Wave and standard, in my home as well. My HA system is the ELK-M1 unit. We're going to replace our swimming pool / spa controller with a Z-Wave compatible model next. Intermatic makes a system that looks promising though I haven't experimented with it yet. That plus a couple of RCS Zwave compatible thermostats for our air handlers should complete the system.
Tell me more. My "fancy" AquaLink controller just shot craps _again_ :-(
...Jim Thompson
Here's a link to the Intermatic catalog in PDF format. The document covers several product groups. Look for what Intermatic calls I-Wave (their version of Z-Wave). There are retrofit / add-on models on pp 15(ff) and complete controllers on 20(ff).
Oops. Actually, that link takes you to their HTML page. :^)
All the end devices interoperate, but controllers, including the 4 button wall controllers that Leviton makes, require a ViziaRF controller to program. There are also differences in appearances.
The price discrepancy can be attributed to several factors. The eBay auction might be for used, defective or refurbished equipment. Unfortunately, there are also people who purchase merchandise from legitimate online dealers using stolen credit card data and then auction it off on eBay. If it looks too good to be true...
The reason for the difference in Leviton Vizia's appearance is the features. The dimmers have a small rocker to preset the level and an LED column to indicate current level.
How long is the "delay" when performing an ON or OFF (not dim) ? My experience is that it is a fraction of a second.
To isolate the problem (defective equipment, RF interference, or powerline signal attenuation/noise), try plugging in only _one_ Lamplinc and _one_ Access Point into the _same_ outlet. Try both Access Points (one at a time) and both Lamplincs (one at a time).
Not to belabour the obvious, but:
1) If the delay disappears in all cases (compared to your previous multi-room setup), the issue is most likely in your powerline and the problem identification and solutions are similar to that of X-10. 2) If the "delay" only occurs when a specific part is used, that part is the probable culprit. 3) If there is still a "delay" in each case, your remotelinc may be defective.Good idea in any case if you contemplate more than a minimal installation.. No data is as compelling as that from a real-world test in your own environment. If your wiring is not initially friendly to powerline control, and you don't want the hassle and expense of making it so, INSTEON may not be what you want.
Or you may want more than one technology. I have a couple of different hard-wired strategies that include lighting as ell as INSTEON. I've contemplated Z-wave for a location where none of my existing approaches is easy to implement.
HTH ... Marc
Visit my ongoing Home Automation and Electronics Internet Porch Sale at
Marc_F_Hult
Sorry to jump in late here, but your other post prompted a reply to this thread. (A dimmer-controlled receptacle is against code.)
As you probably know, the X10 protocol takes 22 cycles of the AC waveform to send a command. It takes two commands to select a module and turn it on or off. It is interesting to note that with sufficient signal strength, an "armed" module will respond to an on or off command after only 11 cycles (just the first half of the command).
I did a test here timing response from a PalmPad - through a RR501 - and out to a lamp module. An on or off command took perhaps 3/4 of a second from the button press. Another test from a Maxicontroller required pressing two buttons, but the lamp responded virtually instantaneously to the second press. 11/60 would be less than 0.2 second.
Delay might be a factor responding to motion detectors. Here we use Leviton "wire-in" motion detectors, so no X10 traffic is involved. We did use a X10 RF motion detector at the last house, but it was located so that it responded before a person entered the "controlled" area.
Our Ocelot sends almost all the X10 traffic. The only time we see that short delay is when we issue a PalmPad command, or trigger a macro in the Ocelot. Otherwise, the house pretty much takes care of itself.
Jeff
snip
Earlier I asked peter if he was using the INSTEON starter kit in X-10 or INSTEON mode. He replied to the effect that he was using it in whatever was the default (out-of-the-box) mode. I subsequently looked at the INSTEON/Smarthome site and found that the starter kit is billed as INSTEON-only.
INSTEON RF is part of the mostly unimplemented INSTEON "dual-mesh" system and is not 'compatible' with X-10 RF. INSTEON continues to post misleading information on the dual-mesh" nature of INSTEON which still has not been implemented even to the extent that they claimed when INSTEON was initially released about three years ago.
I'm still curious about how long the delay that peter experiences is.
... Marc
Visit my ongoing Home Automation and Electronics Internet Porch Sale at
Marc_F_Hult
My understanding is tyhat the "dual-mesh" is comprised of two signal repeating functions. One is that each unit repeats what it receives so the signal is spread over the powerline and the other is that the access points send and receive signals to each other via RF to inject the signal into the powerline wherever they are thereby creating a dual mesh of PLC and RF signal distribution.
While I have no experience with Z-wave, I did do a comparison of UPB and Insteon and found that there were areas that UPB could not reach that Insteon could but not vice versa. That, with the backward compatibility with X10 PLC, led me to choose Insteon.
About half a second. Is this normal?
The remote is on my coffee table. If I press the on button on the remotelinc and immediately swing my arm toward the ceiling, my arm would reach vertical up when the light is on.
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