Insteon - WOW

Are the factory-assigned ID numbers printed on all of the Insteon modules and switches now? I didn't notice whether they were or not when I had the loaner starter kit that I used for testing.

I'm sure a lot of people here will benefit from ongoing reports of your Insteon installations.

They're on sticky labels on each module. But, they're not on the packaging or documentation for the modules.

They do seem like they'll hold up as well as any cable labeling would.

You want to do that with Insteon, X-10 or any system you set up. It's always good to know where the modules are and what they are set to.

-- Bobby G.

One other thing I forgot to mention was the setup of n-way switches.

It is VERY NICE. Since each module is a transmitter and a receiver, you just program one switch/dimmer (connected only to power -- not to a load) to control another switch/dimmer.

The procedure is simply to press and hold the paddle (on) for 10 seconds and the switch/dimmer status light blinks. Then, you go to the switch/dimmer that you want to control hand hold its paddle (on) for a few seconds. The lights go on/off and voila, you've got a 3-way setup. Just repeat for 4, 5, etc.

No need to worry which phases the various switches/dimmers are on or anything.

And, the same process works for controlling lamp and appliance modules from wall switches.

It's great!

Mitch

Mitch wrote:

How does Insteon handle manual (push button) operation of more than 10 lights? The only controllers I've found only operate 5.

As far as I know there aren't any controllers like the X10 "maxi controller".

You basically need a button for each specific device you want to control because the address space is 16**6 versus X10's 256.

I've only got 2 buttons on the insteon controller doing anything (two lamps in the livingroom). I plan to set the other three buttons to scenes.

I also plan to put a touchscreen up for a central controller at some point in the near future.

Mitch

OK...We've bumped into two reliability problems:

1. A light far from the powerlinc interface won't turn off on a consistent basis
2. None of the lights went off on Friday night as they were programmed.

The front door light is the furthest geographically and probably electrically from the Mac controlling the lights. Interestingly, it reliably goes on when programmed, but not always off. Other lights don't have this problem.

Also, Friday night, none of the lights went off as programmed.

So, my hypotheses are:

1. The front door issue is a signal strength problem.

The Signalinc's were both on circuits that are off of the same subpanel as the Powerlinc. I moved the signalincs to circuits that are off the main electrical panel and physically closer to the front door light switch.

1. The Friday night issue was a "software glitch". I am having my friend reboot the mac every now and then to see if the software just lost its mind.

We'll see what happens.

If anyone else has some good ideas, please let me know.

Thanks,

Mitch

Other background: about 20 icon and insteon switches plus 2 signalincs,

1 powerlinc and 1 insteon tabletop controller with Indigo software on a Mac. No X10 devices in the house. 2.4 GHz devices include phones and wireless LAN. No other RF or powerline stuff I'm aware of.

An ESM1 _might_ confirm whether it's a signal strength issue. I say "might" because my ESM1 seemed to report a higher level than what I could see on my scope through ACT's Scope-Test 2 so I'm not sure whether to trust the level indication. It is OK for detecting presence or absence of the Insteon signal.

Are the scheduled events stored >OK...We've bumped into two reliability problems:

Thanks, Dave...

The events aren't stored in the PowerLinc. The Indigo software on the Mac doesn't support that yet (in case you start taking your PC for granted).

The signal is there sometimes because I haven't had any problems switching the light on... just off. Also, it only seems to happen at night. I can sit at the Mac and tell the light to go on/off all day and not be able to reproduce the problem.

It's hard for me to believe the software could be the cause of this since the schedules we have defined in it are VERY few and simple right now.

The problem is a lot like what I have in a "remote" bathroom in my house using X10. At night, I turn the light off and the night light on with HomeSeer, but sometimes one (or both) commands don't get through. I keep meaning to put in another booster somewhere, but have been too lazy to get around to it.

Mitch

I've found that it pays to be generous with distribution of the RF lincs. I have 4 now and may add 2 more (cheaper in pairs).

Regarding the light that will turn on, but not off. This could be powerline interference from the light itself and it might need a filter.

Despite some of the great things about Insteon, it can still suceptible to powerline interference like X10. I have one device in my house (Tilia Foodsaver) that when plugged in will almost completely kill Insteon throughout the entire house (just has to be plugged in, not even running)..

Secondly, you mention two SignalLincs, but you didn't say if they were on separate power phases (fast blink vs. slow blink on the test mode as described in the instructions) (something to check, the panel they are on doesn't matter, it is the power phase that matters). As someone else mentioned, additional SignaLincs are great because you can add them anywhere.

Also, it has been reported that Insteon needs a certain number of devices to reach critical mass. I found that in my house, with a few devices it was

100% reliable, then as I added more devices it got less reliable (probably the powerline two way signal sucking problem), but as I added even more devices it got reliable again.

Also, on the software side, most of the software I've seen is only beta quality. Even the best (PowerHome) has problems (many due to SmartHome's Device Manager software). But, it's getting better. :)

----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitch" Newsgroups: comp.home.automation Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 4:08 PM Subject: Re: Insteon - WOW

I suspect this is more a matter of topology rather than purely some quantity of units per cubic foot. Signal attenuation due to length of wiring runs is minimal but attenuation is highly correlated with the number of terminations so the area of an installation can stand as a proxy for attenuation. IOW, having the units spaced more or less evenly is probably a factor given that each acts as a repeater. In general, the more units deployed the more likely they are spaced optimally.

Insteon handles it just fine. What you mean is the only Insteon handheld controller you found operates 5 groups. Each device can be a member of 417 groups (except for Icon devices which are limited to 10 and the PLC which is limited to 255, but the PLC doesn't have to be in a group to operate a device and you don't normally control the PLC from another controller).

The KeyPadLinc controller can control 8 groups, and although it is not a handheld device there are handheld enclosures that it will fit in.

Also, Insteon is backwards compatible with X10, so just about any X10 controller can also control Insteon (Insteon devices support 256 X10 scenes with each scene having individual brightness and ramp levels).

However, most people are going to use Insteon like they use regular light switches (or X10), they are simply going to hit the on or off button on the switch itself (although this would also be true for the other home lighting systems).

So, unless I misunderstood your question (and not to sound like an Insteon advertisement)...

Not so, my friend. While any X10 controller can control an Insteon device that is programmed as an X10 device, they cannot control an Insteon device that is setup as an Insteon device unless their is an X10 to Insteon translator online. Smarthome never went beyond Beta with their's but RoZetta should be available in the near future.

I said Insteon was backwards compatible with X10, not that X10 was compatible with Insteon.

Any X10 controller can control any current Insteon device and any Insteon controller can control any X10 device (with the limitation being Insteon devices only support X10 pre-set dim commands and not regular X10 dim commands).

The translator is only needed if you wanted to use Insteon protocol (main reason you'd want a translator) or for a potential future Insteon device that does not natively support X10. (However, when you see how superior Insteon is to X10, you'll want to switch everything over to Insteon). (A third reason would be for those that'd rather program X10Insteon mappings through software rather than going through the hassle of programmign X10 addresses, which is a hassle if you aren't using decent home automation software.)

Insteon devices are not either Insteon or X10, they support both at the same time. X10 is ignored unless an X10 address is programmed into the Insteon device. On devices set up as both Insteon and X10 when communicating to another device also set up as dual Insteon/X10, Insteon takes priority (according to SmartHome). SmartHome canceled their translator because they realized it wasn't needed (and you can still get the translator, it is a free download for developers - which only costs $99 and you get a PLC and LampLinc (which, I think was the same price as the translator)).

So, again, Insteon natively speaks X10, and for most people in most circumstances no translator is needed. (And from what I understad, the RoZetta is going to be more than just a translator)

Well I've just learned something new. I was told, by the Insteon product people, that if you program an Insteon device as X10 it will not respond to Insteon commands and vice versa so I've never tried it. Of course, the whole point in replacing the X10 stuff is to use the Insteon protocol. The purpose of a translator is to allow an X10 controller, such as Stargate, to send Insteon signals. If an X10 signal is used the benefits of Insteon are lost.

That's interesting news. The makers of Insteon make much about the redundancy of Insteon -- to wit, "if the X10 signal fails the RF signal will make it through and vice versa". If what you say is correct, their claims of Insteon's strength may be somewhat misleading.

I'm not so sure about that. The Insteon documentation does say that you can set them up to respond to both and it does say that it will ignore X-10 if an Insteon command is in process (because the Insteon command starts before ZC) BUT you tested that Bruce and found that an X-10 signal completely blocked the Insteon signal from activating the module addressed. I need to go back and reread my review of the starter kit. I think I had one Insteon module set up for dual use but the details escape me.

The translator is needed for things like the Stargate and UPB and for faster RF to Insteon or UPB and to keep as much X-10 as possible off the powerline but when a 2414S is available, it makes more sense to have it send the X-10 PLC command as that offloads the task from the translator.

What I haven't tested yet but will try to remember to test is the X-10 PLC signal level from the 2414S. Their orig>Well I've just learned something new. I was told, by the Insteon product