plugging an appliance module into a lamp module?

I'm thinking about plugging an appliance module into a lamp module, so that i can effectively get a dim-on effect.

That is, starting w/ the appliance module off, I would send an on signal to the lamp module, dim the lamp module to 0%, send an on signal to the appliance module, then brighten the lamp module to whatever brightness i wanted at whatever rate i wanted.

the lamp module would be plugged into the wall, next would come the appliance module, and finally the lamp itself.

What i'm wondering is

1) will this work, or will the lamp module chop the x10 signal when dimming, such that the appliance module never sees it 2) is there a risk of damaging the appliance module by sending it the dimmed signal (i know you shouldn't plug a lamp module into a lamp module, since you're putting two dimming circuits in a row, but i don't know if there are any issues with an appliance and a lamp) 3) will this not work at all since the lamp module won't have a closed circuit when the appliance module is off (but maybe the appliance module current sensing will provide enough of a complete circuit)

obviously for #1 i can just try it and see, but first i'd like a little reassurance that i won't fry a module or start a fire if i leave it that way overnight, etc.

i know, people are going to point me to lamp modules that have preset dim options and the ability to come on at zero brightness, ramp up, etc etc, i'm just wondering if this is something i can do with what i've got.

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Dave Houston

Thanks Dave, this is the kind of insightful response that I come to this group for.

Has it ever occurred to you that sometimes no response is better than being a jerk? I'd think someone as brilliant as yourself would have better things to do with your time than spend it insulting those who are so clearly inferior to yourself.

How about you take another 5 minutes to enlighten me about which part of this idea is "dumbass", if you can come down off your pedestal long enough to do so.

Is it because it'll never work (man i'm such an idiot for not realizing this could never work! But then, maybe that's why I was attempting to turn to those with more experience than myself)

Or is it because it's an overly complicated hack when much better solutions exist? (you think I don't realize this? sometimes the beauty is the hack itself)

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First, I did not insult you. I made no reference whatsoever about your intelligence or character. I merely denigrated your idea. Lots of very bright people sometimes have dumb-ass ideas.

Second, you have disparaged my character.

Third, a standard lamp module will always come on at 100%. When dimmed to 0% its output is close to 0 (as measured with a Kill A Watt meter or true RMS voltmeter. An appliance module uses a latching relay so it will stay in the same state whether it is under power or not but you cannot change its state when its power source is 0.

Best case: It will not work so you'll be wasting an appliance module that has no effect on the lamp.

Worst case: The appliance module will take umbrage at being asked to work when its power source is between 0 & 95% (max from lamp module) and take up smoking. The lamp module might follow suit. The house and its occupants might follow suit.

An LM14A or >Thanks Dave, this is the kind of insightful response that I come to >this group for.

Reply to
Dave Houston

It takes electricity to energize the relay coil and X10 circuits of the appliance module. The current sense energy will not be sufficient to energize the 110v relay.

Reply to
E. Lee Dickinson

Thanks, both of you, that was sort of what i suspected might be the case, but i didn't want to try it, lest, as Dave put it, my modules take up smoking during the experiment.

And Dave, yes, I can appreciate that you weren't disparaging my character so much as my idea, but I think you have to admit that your tone was not that of "i'm sure you're a perfectly smart person in general, but this just isn't a well thought out idea", particularly considering that I already pointed out in my post that I was well aware of the fact that 1) it might not work and 2) it certainly wasn't the most practical approach.

I just happened to have the spare modules laying around and got to thinking about how i might use them.

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I think you should at least plug a few modules in to eachother, take a digipic, and put it on the web somewhere. :)

Reply to
E. Lee Dickinson

I piggyback modules all the time. In the basement all the lights are on two piggyback modules except the stairway light. One press of B4 turns on the stairway light which is on a single module - another press of B4 activates the second tier of modules and turns all of the basement lights on. B4 OFF shuts them all down. Sort of like those lamps that have three way bulbs. A nice by-product is that the whole set of basement lamps hardly ever activate accidentally, even with multiple power blips from the power company.

All my perimeter motion detectors work from a TM751 that's plugged into another appliance module. When I want to turn them all off at once (windy nights, squirrel and cat mating or whatever) I turn off the module that controls the TM751. Works nicely.

I'm working on making it so that the first motion detector turns on the first of two piggybacked appliance modules, the end one with a chime plugged into it. Only the second pulse from the motion detector would activate that second module and the chime plugged into it, giving me at least a little isolation from single event false triggers for the %$5 cost of a second appliance module.

You just have to know which modules can plug into each other to keep the magic smoke inside.

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

That *was* rude, no matter what you say, Mr. Houston.

Dave Houst> Either your spell checker failed to prompt you to replace "dim-off" with

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Right, in fact at one point I was using a lamp module plugged into an appliance module (not the otherway around, which i now understand would be a "Bad Thing") before I had a PC handling motion detector macros.

I had one motion detector outside that sent the sundown signal, which turned on the inside appliance module. (and turned off the appliance module when the sun came back up)

I had another motion detector inside which detected motion 100% of the time, and would turn on the lamp module when it detected motion. (plugged into the appliance module)

The net result was that only when it was dark *outside* would the motion detector *inside* turn on the inside light. (just putting the inside motion detect on "sense during dark only" wouldn't quite get the same effect)

Now, of course, i just have full PC control so it knows when the sun is down and reroutes the macro accordingly, but at the time it seemed like a nice hack.

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