Need help for Engineering Management project

I'm not dispouting the numbers -- only commenting that they have not been verified.

Is there an echo in here?

Absolutely not.

Wrong. I said that your statement to that effect does not prove the widely used item is *not* good. Here again, I'm not saying that ADT's success is an indication they're bad. I outlined several reasons why their dealer program is rife with problems.

In the case of these ADT authorized dealers, it was more than "just business." Courts in numerous states found it was crooked business.

A bit behind the news, are we?

With increasing frequency that is precisely what has been happening. Police departments all over the country are starting to demand "verification" that a burglary is actually happening before they send an officer. Many departments refuse to respond at all after the ridiculous number of false alarms they get from these poorly installed systems being used by poorly trained owners.

Uh-huh, sure.

McDonalds sells more meals than all the good restaurants in the country combined. Do you think their food is as good as the rest?

Radio Shack sells more electronics than any chain store in the country. Would you order an alarm from them?

Once they've signed up they're stuck. I get calls every other day from angry ex-clients of these authorized dealers.

Insurance companies which offer discounts for alarms don't discriminate based on who did the job. In fact, most companies that offer a discount will even extend it to DIYers who install their own security systems. Most of my customers apply for and receive discounts.

Yes. In fact, I have often stated that I believe ADT *corporate* is a good player.

Perhaps you need to read more than one issue of SDM. Send me your snail mail address and I'll sign you up for free subscriptions to SDM, Security Sales and several other trade rags from the industry. Meanwhile, here are a few interesting links:

Next case: This one is from Security Sales & ]Integration magazine... "Lawsuit Claims ADT Stole Customers From Dealers" SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. ? An alarm contractor is claiming ADT Security Services stole its customers while it was an ADT Authorized Dealer. First Protection Inc. of Scottsdale, Ariz., has sued ADT, saying the division of Tyco cancelled existing contracts with First Protection customers, re-signed the contracts with the customer directly and then charged First Protection for the cancelled accounts. The suit was filed on Sept. 15 in the Maricopa County, Ariz., Superior Court. "

Missouri's attorney general has filed suit against ADT for its illegal telemarketing campaign.

Florida's AG has fined "authorized dealers"... AG Urges Caution When Entering Contracts For Security Systems The AG's public warning states: "TALLAHASSEE -- Floridians who turn to home security systems for added protection of life and property should beware of dishonest tactics that might be used to market those systems, says Attorney General Bob Butterworth." "Consumers hoping to protect themselves from burglars and other intruders can fall prey to another kind of threat -- deceptive sales pitches," Butterworth said." "In recent weeks, the attorney general has taken action against two companies for deceptively marketing home security systems through bogus 'free' offers."

Yes, that is true. Many of them call a competing alarm company later, after they've had enough of the "authorized dealers's" nonsense. I get a lot of calls from DIYers who want to rip out their ADT panels and replace them with something they can use.

Discounting kids looking to shovel snow, candidates for office or their volunteers, and evangelists, the last door-to-door salesman that knocked on our front door was from ADT (or so he said).

He was pretty pushy - questioning whether our security signs actually meant that we had monitoring. It was as if he thought that he could confuse me long enough to get his foot in the door.

I told him to smile into the cameras and he seemed taken aback when he saw the two big vandal-resistant domes -- but it might jist have been that his neck tie was clipped on *way* too tight ...

...Marc Marc_F_Hult

And you think calling someone a liar is a *good* business practice? I have far less reason to defend ADT than you have to attack them since you competed against them. I think people can make that credibility judgement for themselves.

As for all the times you've complained about Dave's analysis of Z-wave as being without experience, you seem to be doing the same damn thing. I have an ADT system. You don't. How on earth do you expect anyone to believe

Oy. What color is that kettle, mister pot?

-- Bobby G.

I apologize.

Perhaps. However, I've seen the work that many of the so-called authorized dealers do. Most of the time the installations were poorly done using the cheapest hardware available. It is commonplace for them to take "shortcuts" with security just to get the job done as fast as possible.

They're actually very helpful to my business. I get calls from lots of ex-ADT customers looking to buy a system and DIY rather than keep paying triple rate for shoddy service and slow response. They are notorious for taking as much as an hour to call the police and sometimes never calling at all.

Indeed.

Not so. During the 24 years I ran a small alarm company I personally *replaced* scads of ADT systems. My online business has sold systems to hundreds of ex-ADT customers. You have had _one_ good experience so that makes you a very fortunate person.

I wouldn't consider hiring an ADT authorized dealer if the system was free and the monitoring was $1 a month.

I don't. I do know how they've responded to countless others and the record is pretty dismal.

Let us be very clear. I have nothing against ADT _corporate_ security. I've often spoken well of them. I resent the awful things that the ADT authorized dealers have done to my industry.

They really had no impact on me. When I bid against them I almost invariably won because I offered (and still do) comprehensive protection. They don't. Their reps would tell the customer that two door sensors and a motion detector were all they needed for a 3,500 sf home. Their presentations typically lasted 25-35 minutes. I would go through the entire home explaining how we would wire every accessible opening, back that up with glass break and motion detection.

ADT offered smoke detection only if the client asked for it. I would write it into every bid as a selectable option. When ADT did include smokes, they almost never did more than one on the main floor and one outside the bedrooms. I offered smokes in each bedroom, outside the bedrooms, at the top of each stairs and on every level plus heat detectors in the garage, attic and furnace rooms.

My average sales call took a couple of hours but I closed a higher percentage than any rep I know. Online I do something analagous. I spend time finding out what needs protection and sugggest a comprehensive plan. I'm still beating the 2-doors-and-1-motion-detector guys hands down.

Actually, they have dumped crap on my industry. The push for "free" systems which really end up costing the consumer several times as much as a real security system has made the alarm industry a laughingstock among police and fire departments. The proliferation of cheap, poorly installed systems has created a nightmare of repeated false alarms which cost end users and police financially and waste police time, exposing people with real emergencies to greater risk.

You have no idea how much experience I have but I can assure you I know a lot more about my industry than you've learned with one security system.

Oy vey iz mir! Its black.

I've noticed that. It's really interesting how the Internet has been instrumental in increasing the subject knowledge of the people I deal with (for instance). From fire alarms, access control, CCTV, home automation and burglar alarms the information out there is simply phenomenal. Most have made up their minds what they want in the way of equipment long before they get around to actually contacting a company for a quote. And "price" isn't the main deciding factor either.