Suggestions for X10/Automation Widgets

I'm looking for suggestions for some needed X10 or other automation widgets. I have done microcontroller design since the mid 70's. Now retired, I'm looking for projects to keep me busy. Two ideas I have myself are a X10 module offering 4 to 8 digital I/O lines, and a high power version of the TW523 / PSC05 - perhaps for 2-phase 240V.

What are the needs of the automation community? How much would you be willing to pay for a kit or finished product? You can e-mail me directly if you want to keep your answers private.

Thanks for your input.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Volp
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IMHO, the world needs to throw away X10. Do some work with ZigBee and help retire X10.

Reply to
Pat Farrell

Pat,

I've been using X10 since the early BSR brown module days with very close to

100% reliability. There is a large installed base out there.

I don't believe in throwing away things that work well, but I admit that avocado is getting old.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Volp

I no longer invest in *any* device that depends on X-10's powerline transmission. X-10 is undependable in the vast majority of actual installations.

So the market would appear to be in transitioning folks _away_ from x-10.

Time for my periodic suggestion ?

Message-ID: Message-ID:

" As I've posted in comp.home.automation before, in my opinion what is needed is a multi-headed device that can input an X10 signal (either TW523/TTL-level or CM11a/RS-232) and output said X-10 dialect *and* one or more additional protocols.

[...]

A hydra-headed device would accept the input of choice and allow routing of different addresses to different output devices by reference to a routing table sent to the device. This would add DMX512, UPB, Zigbee, UPB, whatever capability to an existing system using software already installed without disrupting existing use of X-10 (or other primary signal/protocol)."

The key here is to preserve the value of existing installations -- especially the programming/code/rules/software -- while allowing migration from X-10 to more reliable, forward-looking technologies.

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

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Reply to
Marc F Hult

Jeff,

Have you looked at the CM15A?

It has PLC and RF (TX & RX) but uses a Cypress µC (USB). I think it offers a great platform for development. It has an 8K EEPROM for timers and macros (could be replaced with 32K but requires soldering).

I've designed a daughterboard that plugs into the µC socket. The daughterboard has a PIC16F88 (can use bootloader) and PIC12F683. The latter is to handle RF (TX & RX) and also interfaces with an ST485 for a network of whatever (e.g. DIO, ADC, RF @ other frequencies like the 418MHz used by programmable RF-capable remotes).

There are two versions of the daughterboard. One is RS232 (5V level) and requires an adapter from the USB connector to DB9. The other uses a SiliconLabs CP2102 USB-serial converter and connects to USB on the PC but with a Virtual Comm Port driver. The same PC software will interface with either version.

My health has reached the po>I'm looking for suggestions for some needed X10 or other automation widgets.

Reply to
Dave Houston

Hi Dave,

I'd like to follow this up with some private communication. Please e-mail me so I can get your address.

Thanks,

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Volp

Jeff,

I emailed you schematics and a picture of both prototype boards. I h>Hi Dave,

Reply to
Dave Houston

In article , snipped-for-privacy@msn.com (Jeff Volp) writes: | I'm looking for suggestions for some needed X10 or other automation widgets. | I have done microcontroller design since the mid 70's. Now retired, I'm | looking for projects to keep me busy. Two ideas I have myself are a X10 | module offering 4 to 8 digital I/O lines, and a high power version of the | TW523 / PSC05 - perhaps for 2-phase 240V.

Given the recent threads here, maybe you should build a true 4-port (or more) repeater. Or a 2-port repeater with an interconnect bus to allow systems with arbitrary numbers of synchronized ports to be constructed. (This would be different from ACT's SCC bus which behaves more like a port. You would need arbitration.) You could even incorporate my noise dampening idea.

Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com

Reply to
Dan Lanciani

Hi Dan,

Rather than a repeater, I was thinking along the lines of a "super" TW523 that would output at least double the amplitude with enough beef to handle at least a few signal suckers. This could be mounted adjacent to the breaker panel and plugged into a 240V socket to drive both phases simultaneously. I see no reason why the 100 KHz signal couldn't be branched off to other panels too.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Volp

Maybe not 'throw away' but I can't see investing any substantial new effort at this point. Any new developments would be better spent elsewhere. It would kind of be like creating a better 8-track tape at this point. It might really be a better 8-track tape, but the world has moved beyond it.

------------------------------------- Dean Roddey Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems

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Reply to
Dean Roddey

I'm not saying throw it away when it is working for you. And some people like vinyl records. Maybe "move away" is a better term.

But if you look at the messages on this newsgroup, a fair number of people are not as smart, talented and good looking as you.

But X10 isn't as accessable as people expect. I don't know if ZigBee is really the answer, but I sure think that finding out if the automation industry can broaden out is likely to yield better returns. All IMHO, of course.

Reply to
Pat Farrell

X10 Wish list:

An outdoor appliance module with a rugged weatherproof design that has true EEPROM memory for its device and house code so it doesn't forget when the power is removed.

The same outdoor module, but with dimmible lighting capability in addition to the features specified above.

A decent X10 web controller program possibly based on AJAX technology so the whole page doesn't need to be refreshed for status updates and a TCP/IP interface with DNS to interface the X10 world (powerline and RF) to a hardware box, just as if you were plugging in another computer to your router. Also, something that completely gets away from the old serial and parallel ports, since these are becoming obsolete in the computer world.

Wireless X10 thermostats that can handle multiple temp sensors and multiple control points with status and telemetry data. A single display that displays all the temp sensors in your house + outside temp, furnace run hours, etc.

Beachcomber

Reply to
Beachcomber

It would seem that either of these has a problem where the module plugs into an outlet. This would somehow have to be protected. I've seen exterior outlets with flip up covers that might be large enough to weatherproof a plug-in module. Our solution for Christmas lights at the old house was a plastic bag and tape. The X10 plug-in modules we use have switches to set codes, so they don't forget.

Sorry, but this isn't my area. Maybe someone else can contribute here. The new X10 CM15A controller interfaces through the USB port.

This IS something that I've been thinking about for the home automation market. We use a multi-zone system here, and it certainly is the way to save on heating/cooling. But, running all those wires was a lot of work. Being able to stick a temperature sensor on the wall like one of the X10 motion detectors would be nice. And getting better data would help to tweak the system for maximum efficiency.

Thanks for the input.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Volp

I tried the plastic bag approach a few times and had some problems. The main issue is the house code and device code selector rotary switches are cheap, cheap cheap! It seems that any moisture that gets into the X10 module from being outdoors (even when in a plastic bag), has an effect on the rotary switches and they become intermittent after that. That's why I wish there was a no-nonsense outdoor X10 module solution.

Beachcomber

Reply to
Beachcomber

This could be a unit like some of the portable GFCI units, with a cord, and weatherproof enclosure with in-use cover.

Better yet, build it like one of the holiday lighting distribution stakes, with 2-4 outlets, possibly individually controlled.

I'd also like to see some heavy-duty hardwired modules that could be installed remotely from the device they are controlling, and do not require that an appliance be plugged directly into the module.

Reply to
Bob Vaughan

Jeff,

One thing for which I think there would be demand is a power meter based on Allegro Microsystems Hall Effect current sensors. They come in sizes suitable for whole house or single appliance metering.

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While I think Insteon (two-way, ACK/NAK) would be better for this, a carefully designed protocol could work with X-10. Maybe send the accumulated numbers with each reading. That along with a known roll-over could make up for potentially lost messages.

The X-10 PLC protocol already def>I'm looking for suggestions for some needed X10 or other automation widgets.

Reply to
Dave Houston

Have you looked at the hard-wired modules sold by Leviton (6375 / 6376) and perhaps still ACT? They are 15A appliance modules and lamp modules with pigtails that are designed to be wired into junction boxes. I bought one to control an exhaust fan. But, it does take a deep box to squeeze one in.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Volp

That does sound like a good idea, but calibration might be tough. Certainly a protocol could be developed to replace lost messages.

Along the same lines, something I would find useful is a light ON monitor - perhaps a simple EagleEye mod that would send out a periodic lighting status. I had planned to do this with hard-wired current sensors for basement lights. But a simple stick-on module would certainly be easier.

Thanks to all who have given suggestions both here and via e-mail. Hopefully, I will be able to turn some of them into reality in the coming months.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Volp

Looking at the data sheet, I see these solve the calibration issue by passing the current directly through the device. The devices I was familiar with were positioned in proximity to an insulated wire to sense current flow. I was thinking more along the lines of monitoring houshold energy consumption to take advantage of discount periods. These are more applicable to a plug-in module to monitor energy consumption of one particular device.

Jeff

Reply to
Jeff Volp

I haven't actually gotten samples to play with but I don't think calibration is a problem. The manufacturer says each sensor is fully precision calibrated at the factory before shipment.

The current sensors output a ratiometric analog voltage (0-5V) that is proportional to the current through them. A µC need only sample that and the voltage a few thousand times per second to calculate instantaneous real power. An 8-pin PIC12F675 or PIC12F683 would probably be sufficient. It's mostly a matter of deciding what units of measure make the most sense (joules, watt-hours, watt-evers) and developing an algorithm and protocol.

I had c>> "Jeff Volp" wrote:

Reply to
Dave Houston

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