is x10.com dead?

Because it does the job perfectly. Why spend more money on a "new" system to get something else that works as well?

In our case, we upgrade where improvements are worth the investment. Computer upgrades have allowed me to work more efficiently, and simulations run much faster. But, that old Maytag washes clothes just as well now as it did almost 40 years ago.

Jeff

Agreed, I was facetiously throwing out that argument.

Oh they ARE unique, aren't they? VERY good analogy for HA oddities.

An old friend of mine used to drive one to work in Boston back in the 60's. They used to have an adjustable, air-oil suspension system. For city driving they would pump up and for highway rides they'd slink down. When he would shut the engine off the thing would return to it's normal state. One day he came off the Mass Pike, drove several blocks and parked across the street from his favorite tobacconist -- directly in front of a bar.

As he stepped out the car made a hissing sound as it rose several inches. A drunk who had just emerged from the bar asked him, "Excuse me mister but did that car just go UP"?

My friend said, "Sure, don't they all?" and walked away. :^)

This thread has become so long that newcomers may have trouble following the discussion. As a public service I've decided to summarize the topic. I think we can condense the whole thread as follows:

1. X10 is awful and should not be used.
2. X10 works fine if you spend some time setting it up and preparing the environment.
3. Radio RA is too expensive and should not be used.
4. Radio RA is worth every cent it costs.
5. Z-Wave is going to fail because no one supports it.
6. Z-Wave is going to take over the world because everyone supports it.
7. Frank doesn't like me.

Did I forget anything?

At least the thread wasn't started with an even longer "search engine positioning" post.

Uh-huh. And take advantage of another opportunity to post your "sig line".

One minor correction. It isn't that "I don't like you". I just don't like your blatant advertising in a forum that has a specific policy (understanding) against it.

It's considered proper form to attribute any quotation you use to the author.

Frank Olson

He might have purchased it from my uncle who had a dealership in NY state (not sure there were too many dealers in the US). He only sold the high end Citroens. I'm not sure they were air, I think they were just hydraulic.It was fun to change the oil on them as you had to remove a huge sheet metal plate to get at the oil pan. The plate kept water off the engine. Water and hydraulics don't mix well.

I think they were all hydraulic. I rode in one a few times between Paris and the Loire Valley. They were very smooth even at very high speeds.

I was going to argue with you that they were a nice looking car. Then I saw the picture of the Citroen in the backyard and a light went on (Oh, yeah, that's what they looked like). Nice car to ride in, they also had strange fetures that made changing the tires very easy to do (if you got a flat). I hated the SM as did my Uncle (the Citroen dealer). Thanks for the link.

1. Frank denies that he doesn't like you but no one else believes him.

I haven't a clue why they wouldn't. I've never lied in this Newsgroup (or in any other). I've always found that "honesty" is the best policy. That way you don't have to "look over your shoulder" (or worry about someone doing a "Google" on your past) every time you post something into a forum like this.

Frank Olson

You're quite right there, Robert. My point is that in trying to predict the future the odds are better for a protocol that has the backing of a large number of significant players.

There's no guaranty that any of these protocols will be her 10 years from now.

From what I can tell, that's right. To tell the remote that you've dumped one or more units you dump them all and relearn them. The relearning process appears straightforward though this is something they need to work on.

The problem seems to be with the design of the remote and the transceiver -- not a protocol issue -- so it should be addressable by the manufacturer as well as by other vendors.

I have no idea where he bought it but I'm pretty sure it was a top of the line model.

Could very well be. It's been years since I saw him or the car.

1. It was my mistake mentioning him...

Next case?

You do that a lot.

They may have as many POTENTIAL security problems, but the facts are that there are more exploits out there for Windows system security problems. That is probably due to Windows being a more enticing target, but in actual usage it means I am less vulnerable by using Unix/Linux.

Nope. But published security reports are NOT obscurity. And if/when Unix/Linux systems become a popular target, I'll need to reevaluate, but until then, my Unix/Linux systems are in practice far more secure than Windows.

EOD

sdb

In today's NYT they talk about "standards defections" in an article at:

The article talks about how Microsoft has just defected from Sony's BluRay format to join the Toshiba HD-DVD camp:

"But two unexpected and little-noticed decisions by the Blu-ray group last spring managed to alienate Microsoft and ultimately revive Toshiba's sagging fortunes.

First, Sony and the Blu-ray group adopted a Java program for interactive features. Microsoft favored a rival called iHD because, among other things, it would work better with its new Vista operating system. The Blu-ray group's board also approved an encryption technology called BD+, which Mr. Majidimehr, Microsoft's vice president for Windows digital media, deemed superfluous."

Their defection has in turn caused a shift in the loyalties of the smaller players who don't want to pay Sony's software fees (apparently much higher than HD-DVD) and who are spooked by delays and technical problems that Sony is experiencing. I'm sort of dubious about cramming 30 gigs onto a plastic platter without a protective cartridge myself. I don't think Sony has enough 3-year-olds in their product testing labs.

I'm not sure how well this battle of giants mirrors the battle of pygmies that is the HA standards war, but I suspect that there will be similar defections from Z-Wave whenever someone in some committee does something that a major player takes offense to. It was time for something to supplant X-10 - that much seems to be agreed on. I'm betting on Insteon because they offer a migration path from today's defacto standard, X-10. That's why I am also betting on HD-DVD: their players will play old DVD's as well as HDs. As soon as the two hit the real market Sony will be either forced to add compatibility electronics to play old DVDs or they will crash and burn. If there's anything PCs have taught me it's how important having a "migration path" is to sustaining continuous growth in the industry.

Interestingly enough, the article also mentions how Sony, the inventor of the Walkman, got its lunch eaten in a big way by the Apple I-Pod. Sony used to be one of the great innovators - at one time they would continually release products that were "must have" and that no one else made. Now they've lost their focus and have become a conglomerate with a music company that, IIRC, once paid Michael Jackson $1B. The music division promotes so many internecine rivalaries they've had to bring a knighted Brit on board to straighten things out. They're trying hard to recapture the image of innovation they were once known for with the new BluRay technology, but I think they're going to go hungry again.

And the beat goes on, the beat goes on . . .

-- Bobby G.