Controling Holiday Lights

X10 is not capable of sub 1 second control. A normal X10 command takes two messages, such as A-1, A-ON. With the 3 cycle intermessage gap, a complete command takes 47 cycles of 60Hz. Another 3 cycle gap is needed before another message can be sent.

I would use a PC controlling a bunch of solid state relays. Years ago I built custom factory automation equipment using DOS era PCs, and even that would be capable of doing what you want.

Jeff

just what you need.

Not going to happen. X10 is too slow.

You can save time by spending money. Or save money by spending time. You will need to determine where on that scale you need to be.

You can use X10 for the slow stuff (1sec or slower) and start adding faster stuff for the faster effects.

As for software... I do my own. Sorry.

You can find more software and hardware info at sites such as

(highly recommended) See their "how-to" and forum sections.

If you aren't comfortable doing 120vAC component wiring, controllers can be purchased, but they aren't what I would call cheap.

Long and boring hardware details follow...

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If you are up to doing 120vAC component wiring, you can save money by spending time. You can build controllers using a solid-state relay (SSR) controlled from a parallel port and switching a 120v circuit. Or for cheaper you can build your own SSR using an opto-coupler (to protect the parallel port) and a triac. I have been able to buy SSRs cheap enough on the surplus market that I haven't bothered with triac circuits. For example, this looks like it would work well:

then Relays then Solid-State)

home page at:

spec: The 3-15vdc control input means most PC parallel ports should be able to control the relay. The 240vac at up to 18amps means you can switch about as many lights as you would ever put on one circuit. (Probably you want to keep the number under 50%, or less than 9 amps because these relays will need a heat sink to keep them cool when running large loads or high ambient temperatures.) That particular relay is "zero crossing" which minimizes the interferance to TV and radio reception, but also means you cannot make a light dimmer or ramp brightness up or down as well as a "random" switching relay. At under $10/ea buying a dozen is maybe half of retail price. (A typical PC parallel port can typically control 12 such relays.) Sometimes you can find even better deals.

AllElectronics also lists a 1amp SSR for $1.50. that might be enough for each channel. Can't find good specs on it though. However at that price I'm tempted to buy a dozen just to play with. Small enough to mount right on the outlet and probably easy to fit four of them into a four-gang metal box with two duplex outlets...

I build my controllers in sets of four (four independently switched outlets in a metal box) with a short 120vAC plug for power and an RJ45 (8 conductor "network" jack) for control input. (of the 8 control wires, four (two pair) control the circuits, two (one pair) provide ground, and the last two (one pair) provide power (which these simple relay boxes do not need or use). I use the standard power-over-ethernet wiring for the power distribution and use what would normally be "ethernet" wires for the control signals. Then I can use up to three such boxes per parallel port. Because I use standard jacks I can use whatever off-the-shelf patch cord I want between my parallel port adapter and the box. I've used up to 100ft patch with no problems.

I've toyed with the idea of building an expansion for the parallel port to control more boxes, but it seems too tedious so I haven't.

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Anybody have a source for cheap PCI parallel port cards (e.g. four parallel ports on one card)?

sdb

Never seen such a beast.

A venerable and still current solution to the need for multiple digital (TTL) input-output (I/O) are ISA- and PCI-bus cards based on the 8255 Programmable Input Output (PIO) IC from the 8080 chip family which predated the original

8088 IBM PC.

Google 8255 PIO for hardware, drivers and software ideas.

There are typically many for sale at eBay for nickels on the dollar.

Business & Industrial > Industrial Electrical & Test > Test Equipment > Card Based (VXI/PXI/PCI)

The current National Instruments DIO cards are the PCI-6503 (24 TTL I/O), PCI-DIO-96 (96 TTL I/O) and PCI- 6257 (48 I/O, optically isolated with 120ma drive).

(I'll be having an internet porch sale in a couple of weeks and will have a pile of these and related instrumentation and HA items for sale/swap.)

HTH ... Marc Marc_F_Hult

oops. Its PCI-6527, not 6257

... Marc

Why not use MIDI? There's a very inexpensive controller that you could build (midibox.org) that will give 128 inputs and outputs. More can be added by just daisy chaining more controllers on the MIDI cable. You can program with free MIDI sequencing software. You'd also have the capability of syncing easily to a sound track!

---john.

Good point, John. One of my favorite Christmas displays is about three miles down Proctor Rd from my home in Sarasota. There are something like 400,000 (really) lights on all kinds of moving displays. Everything is sequenced to a MIDI soundtrack playing traditional Christmas hymns through speakers hidden in the trees. The entire theme is really about Christmas -- no Santa and no reindeer. Every year they add to the display. It's a pretty famous light show, attracting visitors from all over the world every year. This is a private home, by the way.

The below board might be better than parallel ports.

That looks like a nice I/O board. But I'm skeptical of the speed at which one could arbitrarily change the bits. For example, walking-1 or walking-0 thru the entire set, or invert all or some arbitrary subset (xor), and other common effect operations.

Something like these (similar to what Marc pointed out) is more likely to be fast enough:

or That actually looks like a nice card. Each 8255 is roughly two XT/AT style parallel ports so if it is designed well, that card might do what I need, and the price isn't too far out either. Too bad Futurelec doesn't put detailed tech info online. There's no way I'd be using Windows! Of course, for that price I could build a PIC based solution and not need a PC at all...

sdb

SsssssssLlllllllOoooooooWwwwwwwww

Granted, MIDI is probably 10x the speed (in theory) of X10, but I haven't seen a complete solution to know what is achievable. And that still means only about 10 cycles per second (Hertz or Hz), which still limits you to only basic on/off effects. (Compare to 50-60Hz for a zero-crossing A.C. relay or way over 1000Hz for a PC parallel port.)

With a direct access binary I/O (eg parallel port or a normal digital I/O pin of a microcontroller such as PIC) it is trivial to PWM a light from dark to full on and back to off to create fades. If all I wanted to do was turn on and off there are innumerable ways, and X10 is darn effective. But once you add speed into the mix, it changes the problem dramatically.

As for midibox, it appears to be a midi controller primarily, with some direct I/O capability included. I don't see the direct applicability unless I wanted to replace to the PC as a controller, and then I see no obvious reason to introduce the complexity and delays of MIDI.

sdb

The MIDI controlled Christmas lighting display I described earlier sequences hundreds of circuits. Lights and motors switch on and off, sometimes at blazing speeds, to the tune of the MIDI track. There are several scenes where a series of lighting circuits flashes on and off at about 10-20 times per second per circuit. Note: I'm guessing as to the rate, but it was way too fast to count.

I have and it's pretty darned fast. A group of volunteers starts to build the set each year around the middle of October (it takes seven weeks to set the whole thing up according to a notice at the entrance to the property). I'll stop by this weekend and ask which controller they're using. I believe someone said they used Cakewalk software to sequence the system. I'll check on that, too.

Controlling holiday lights that should not be much of a limitation.

In addition to clunky X10 and faster, more flexible MIDI, there are other options. The DMX-512 protocol is used for modern theatrical lighting. It's also in use on commercial buildings where its simple topology and reliable performance are important considerations. One of the regular posters here has even designed a home-use DMX-512 lighting controller. I've used DMX-512 extensively in designing theatrical lighting systems for churches and small auditoriums.

DMX-512 can run up to 512 circuits (hance the name) on a single cable. It's fast enough to run high speed, automated spotlights and musicians' light shows. Controllers used to be prohibitively expensive for home use. However, over the last few years a number of companies have come out with PC card-based DMX-512 controllers. Dimmers and dimming "packs" range from a hundred dollars or so to over $2K, depending on the number of circuits and their ampacity. Homebrew DMX-512 compatible dimmers and relays would be significantly cheaper, though I couldn't begin to tell you how to build one from scratch.

It depends on the box. There are relatively inexpensive, multi-circuit lighting controlers (DJ's use them) that can be controlled by MIDI, DMX-512 or 0-10 Volts DC. DJ lights can dim and flash on/off as fast as the beat on a MIDI sequencer runs a set of Roland digital drums. The tempo can be blindingly fast. If you've ever watched a rock concert on stage you've seen MIDI controlled lighting effects.

It's just one of a number of protocols you can use to control lights. The choice shouldn't be about the protocol so much as the available hardware and its cost. Any one of a number of protocols can be used effectively for this project. MIDI would work fine (it's faster than you might realize). That doesn't mean MIDI is best for your application but it's certainly worth investigating IMO.

That's the disconnect.

I'm talking about the hardware, and you are talking about the protocols to talk to the hardware.

sdb

I don't see why you consider MIDI too slow to accomplish the task. The MIDI protocol isn't inherently slow and the MIDI hardware I've seen is lightning fast. What is it you'd like to accomplish in terms of holiday lighting that is faster than the system (hardware, software and protocol together) which I described?

If you're interested in a holiday lighting controller with serious power and speed, I'd be happy to try to get the specs from these neighbors who built the system. AFAIK, they are using mostly off the shelf components.

Given the solid state relay you reference in the previous post you could send the MIDI command to turn the light on and off four times (worst case) in the time it would take the relay to turn on.

I agree that the parallel port is much faster but how fast is fast enough? Your relay is going to take ~8ms to turn on. An incandescent bulb can take at least 25ms to reach full brightness (often more). It depends on how many relays you are going to control and that's pretty limited unless you multiplex your parallel port.

Do whatever works. I think MIDI may be fine in many cases. And it'd be easy to program given the free software that is available.

---john.

I'm wanting the hardware to control TRIAC or SSR switches, eg a parallel binary I/O port. With that I can turn on and off a light (or anything else) at a rate over 1000 times per second.

This allows all kinds of creative fades to On, Off, or anywhere in between at 100% the whim of my self-written software.

MIDI cannot do that and was never intended to do that. MIDI is a control protocol which is used to tell my hardware what to do. I'm not interested in another protocol that will tell my hardware what to do. I am trying to build hardware. :)

MIDI is inherently slow.

MIDI runs at several bytes per second. Each command is a few dozen bytes. Do the math. It's slow.

Thanks for your offer, but it is the wrong direction for me.

sdb

My design threshold is 1000hz. That seems to be fast enough to PWM lights (remember that is 1000 on and 1000 off per second).

No, that is only for a zero-crossing detecting swith. Typically those I use for small lighting loads (a few amps) cycle in well under 1ms. I only use zero-crossing for larger loads (currently up to 40a) where that characteristic matters, or where I don't need blazing speed.

Very. 12 on a standard parallel port, but only 8 of those are 'fast'. That's why I was asking about multiple parallel boards. :)

The PC is primarily the prototyping platform for sw development. The final target is a microcontroller that will either be autonomous (little) or sit on an ethernet (big).

Yup.

sdb

Doable with MIDI, DMX-512, 0-10VDC and a few dozen other means.

Considering the lag time between turning on the power and the filament heating up enough to be seen, why would you care if it can do

1,000 cycles per second?

Yep. I've designed and installed a number of theatrical lighting control systems which would make most home holiday displays pale by comparison. I can also tell you that there are existing, off-the-shelf solutions which can accomplish what you want to do, although none issue 1,000 commands per second.

Sounds like a fun project. I hope you'll share your experiences as it progresses.

You've decided to use another protocol so this is just a discussion -- not me trying to convince you what to use. That said, here's some info about MIDI. The protocol allows an instrument (or sequencer) to be controlled by "clocks" or "ticks". 48 clocks are sent per second. Ticks, on the other hand, are sent at a rate of 1 message every 10 mSec. That's only 100 changes per second. Note that a "change" can be a command such as "Begin fade from scene 125 to 126" or simply, "turn circuit 125 on". Note that while ticks are intended as a means of keeping things sync'd, it is possible to store a series of commands to build a sequence, then cause them to execute in order based on tick count.

No problem. I look forward to reading about your project (hoping you'll hang around and share what you learn as you go). Regardless how you choose to execute it, this is the kind of project that interests a lot of regulars here. IN that light, you might also want to Google the archives of CHA using "Christmas lights" or some such. There have been a number of interesting threads on the subject every year since I've been posting (and that's a long time) here.

Best of luck.

controlled by "clocks" or "ticks". 48 clocks are sent

I know that. I'm building the instrument that is controlled, not the controller...

And the instrument which actually implements the fade is what I am building. Unless it uses HUGE variable resistors with HUMONGOUS heat sinks to dump the waste heat, it will use PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) to actually fade the light. PWM requires switching the light on and off very fast, otherwise you will see flicker instead of fade.

That is what I am building. It isn't anything new. It is just phenomenally cheaper to build, plus I get exactly what I want.

Yup. I've posted a few myself. Such as

just a few days ago and almost exactly two years ago. :)

Yeah, I've been around a while myself. Looks like I just passed my 11th anniversary in this group. :)

Oh, and BTW, I was doing the stage lighting thing nearly 30 years ago, and we didn't have any PWM equipment, much less computer control. The light board in the booth was simply a remote control for large mechanical dimmers (motor-driven rotary variable resistors) in the 'cage'. A scene change made all kinds of impressive whirring and buzzing noises, and the heat coming from that equipment would power a small town. I find PWM incredible, especially since the introduction of low loss and high-power MOSFETS. I almost cannot believe the way we set any light level on a

2000w fresnel, with comparatively no heat generation and noise.

sdb

Anything faster than about 30 times per second you will see as a fade rather than flickering. However, when using incandescent bulbs the lamp doesn't actually turn off when power is cut. Instead, the filament starts to cool down. It takes a few ms to "go out" and by that time the current has turned on again. Triac based theatrical dimmers do what you're trying. These vary in cost partially with their load capacity.

Heh, heh, heh... You know, Sylvan, if I had taken note of the name in the headers I would have recognized you immediately. :^)

I've seen those backstage at a few "antique" theater houses over the years but never actually used one. I've worked with 0-10V, a few proprietary schemes, DMX-512 and MIDI. We used MIDI to integrate lights with sound tracks for a few youth department functions. I also used it to trigger strobes, foggers and fans at preset times before I installed a computerised control system.

Sounds familiar. We decided to upgrade the dimmer closet in a large church in CT a few years ago. I acquired a replacement transformer -- 440 / 208 WYE. The transformer powered a 400-Amp breaker box which in turn powered the dimmers. Even using triacs, the air conditioned dimmer room (where the transformer was located) was always about 15 degrees warmer than the rest of the building. The real fun was installing the thing in the second floor dimming closet though. It took five men to push and pull it up the stairs.

Our system had 105 permanent circuits and about 15 open ones that could be attached to rental dimmers if needed. Eight circuits were 6kW each for running ACLs and such. The rest were 1kW loads though with the gradual changeover to Source IV luminaires, we were able to get the same light as a 1kW unit with ~600W.

One particular play for which I was the LD had something like 300 cues. I'd plot the lights on my PC at home, configure the "scenes" on stage, time all the cross-fades and then tweak each one until I was satisfied with everything. At various times we used a pair of fog machines, a bubbler (ala Lawrence Welk), half a dozen computerized strobes, various moving lights, four manual spots and, once in a while, all of the FOH fixtures. It was a fun place to go to church.

After doing that for a number of years a few other churches and schools asked me to work on their lighting systems. I learned the hard way an old saying, "Strand is also a verb." Anyone who hasn worked as an LD will know what that means.