I'm looking for a cheap way to dispense a pellet of kibble into a dog crate upon receipt of an X-10 command. Most automatic dog feeders mete out a whole meal's worth and that's way too much. When the pups are sitting in their crates, chewing their nylabones and not creating a ruckus at night they need to be rewarded every now and then and the a good way would be to spit out a pellet of dog food whenever I chose to.
I thought I've seen tubes with spiral inserts that look like auger bits that dispense a certain amount of material as long as the auger spins. Might be a gumball machine I am thinking about . . .
My initial sketches are for something like a handheld screwdriver run by a
3VDC wall wart connected to an appliance module converted to momentary operation. The screwdriver will sit inside a large funnel of kibble with an auger bit twisting inside the funnel stem.
I don't mind if they get three pieces instead of one - or none at all (I know, I'm a heartless SOB). But it's got to fail "closed" meaning it doesn't dispense any MORE than 2 or 3 pieces. And it's got to be very cheap to build. That's a tricky specification here because I've got a lot of old "junk" around like cordless screwdrivers with impractical to replace battery packs, huge darkroom funnels and storage tanks that might dictate my choice of materials far more than what might be best from an engineering standpoint.
Quiet is probably good, too. I suspect the "acking" of a powerful solenoid will cause a stampede. It might even be that the momentary noise of an X-10 module's relay might be too loud. I don't want to wake up all the other sleeping dogs just to reward one of them. They're used to the X-10 noise to indicate visits from people and they get very antsy if a relay clacks and no one appears. I might also have to do the solid state relay mod to the appliance module as well, if it turn out to be a problem.
As usual, I appreciate in advance any useful ideas or discussion.
Dude, I virtually *live* with these dogs. They are all quite young and have been rescued from certain death. They are dogs that NOBODY wanted. They all have moderate to severe medical problems and have to live in large and expensive crates, separate from each other lest they do what dogs do and re-infect themselves or injure one another. The rescue dogs that my wife brings home have been given up by their owners for euthanasia or been found lose and turned into private vets. They are the very lost of lost that were abandoned, no, actually destined for death, and I am trying my damndest to use my HA skills to care for them the best that I can. So you can see why I feel your advice is not well-informed.
We can't watch them 24 hours a day but I do watch them either in person or via video/audio cam almost every second when we are not interacting with them directly. That interaction is measured in long hours every day. Four dogs consume an enormous amount of food and attention. One of the dogs slept with us )-: every night in a snuggie and hot water bottle and after it first arrived because it was so malnourished and feeble that at one point it required mouth-to-mouth to keep breathing. Now it's strong enough to pull itself up onto a table with just its front paws like a little Ahnold S. I play at least an hour of fetch with her a day and she can retrieve any of her toys (bone, ball, bottle, rope, dumbbell and kong) by name. That doesn't just happen if a dog sits in a crate all day.
What I want to do now is deliberately reward them for sitting quietly, chewing on their crate toys when I am upstairs watching TV or reading. Were I to descend the stairs and approach them, they would all think it's feeding or outside time or play time or poo time or whatever and the dog concerto would begin. A nice, quiet pellet dropped to a nice quiet dog only makes them more adoptable. We've already committed to as many as we can save and feed and care for medically. The problem is once you rescue one dog, you get known as a repository for problem dogs and now we're having to turn away dogs and it's painful.
I'm trying my best to train these dogs to have some qualities that will find them a full-time owner and not just a temporary reprieve from the needle. But first, we have to cure them and to do that, they have to be separated in their crates and handled with veterinary protocols. Shelters that double up do that at great peril.
1,000 Dogs, Cats Killed At Nevada Shelter
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Behavior modification says to ignore bad behavior and reward good, and that's what I *should* be doing with you but I wanted to take the opportunity to ask you if you'd like a rat terrier with probably lethal heart valve problem that will die if she gets too excited or doesn't get $1,800 surgery, a Jack Russell terrier with collapsed trachea that snores like a bassoon when sleeping among other problems, biological and behaviorial, a "boodle" nearly blind from untreated eye parasites that barks, interminably, at anything that moves and what looks like a 8 week old labradoodle infested with worms, pink-eye and nearly dead from hypothermia. The number of "Christmas" puppies that are abandoned would stun you so I'll drag out my soapbox:
Ye Olde Puppy Shoppe
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A Forgotten Dog's Christmas
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No Holiday Puppies!
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No Christmas Puppies, Please!
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The Holiday Aftermath
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Puppies As Christmas Presents?
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A Rescue Dog's Christmas
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OK, now that we've got *that* out of the way do you have any *useful* suggestions about building a pellet dispenser? It's only because you seem concerned with the dog's welfare that I even bothered responding.
Bill K. If you've made it down here, see what I mean? Ask a technical question, get a lifestyle critique. My favorite example is what happens to people who seek to limit their children's viewing or computer time electronically. That always draws at least as many "you bad daddy" posts as it does helpful suggestions. Personally, I think it's never too early to introduce the idea that if you don't pay your bills, they turn off the lights.
For what it's worth, I had pretty much the same reaction as "jack ak" when I read the initial post. Having read the details in the followup post it's obvious that it's an entirely different situation. I love dogs and am impressed with your rescue efforts; I don't think I could do it myself - I'd find it too depressing.
That said, perhaps you could provide some more details. It's been a number of years since I last had a dog and I'm not familiar with kibbles. Therefore:
1) Could you describe kibbles? Approximate size, weight, shape, etc. Anything that might be relevant information to consider when constructing a dispenser.
2) Are you thinking in terms of a single unit that would dispense to all crates or something you would replicate on a crate by crate basis?
3) Do you have any problems preloading the dispenser with individual kibbles or are you looking for something with a hopper type arrangement where you just pour in a bag of kibbles and somehow the kibbles settle out into individual treats before being dispensed?
Same questions here. (My wife designed and built such a feeder when working in a neuroanatomy lab almost 40 years ago. She quickly learn that some one else beat her by a few decades ... Have you looked for a commercial version or searched for existing designs?)
If the pellets are all lined up vertically nice-like, all you need is a hole (slightly larger than the diameter of one pellet) drilled through a traveler slightly thicker than one pellet and to cause the traveler to slide from side to side. A solenoid can be used to pull the traveler forward so that a pellet can enter the hole (but not pass through). When the solenoid is released, the traveler moves back to its original position owing to a spring (or second solenoid) and the pellets drops out through a hole in the rack holding the traveler.
O O At Rest: ____________|O|___ | |--------------- | |_______________
O Loading:: ____________|O|____ ------------|O|---- | |_______________
O Delivering:___________|O|____ | |---------------- |O|_______________
O Delivered !__________|O|___ | |------------- | |_____________ O
Similar thing can be done with a rotary motion using a stopcock like device in which the hole for the pellet only goes half-way through the stop c*ck. You can move with either a rotary solenoid or a stepping motor (doesn't need to reverse).
Sorta like not bothering to reply to a tech request with actual tech help? If you're going to preach at least don't be so pompous as it do it without actually presenting useful information.
There's a bunch of pet feeder devices on the market. Have you given any consideration to adapting one of them? If the portions dispensed are 'too large' then it might be a simple shortcut to alter the zsize of the serving container.
I'm no dog person but I'd wonder about the effectiveness of trying to reinforce good behavior is this out of context sort of way. I'd think it more effective to use negative reinforcement of undesired behavior instead. I don't know how well the dog would be trained being rewarded for inaction. Probably not as effectively as being 'punished' for the undesired behavior. This, of course, raises a whole other set of issues.
"Bill Kearney" provides opinion sans useful information in more than one newsgroup. Occasionally with a few swear words for emphasis.
From the scant information about the dogs given in the original post, my reaction was not unreasonable. The poster didn't indicate he had kennel quantities of animals.
"jack ak" wrote... If Bill had done any of those things in the message, your post would have been stupid but somewhat acceptable. Since you give no evidence of this happening I can believe either one of you. Your attitude puts you on the short end of that stick.
Did you make the derogatory remarks about Bobby G as quoted? Yes.
Did you provide anything useful? No.
Did you do this with no clue about Bobby G's major efforts to show these dogs a lot more love and care than they have ever had? Yes
Considering that everything Bill said was polite and accurate, you come off looking like a complete fool.
The pellets don't need to be nicely aligned, that is almost the method used by gum ball machines.
Gumballs are an ideal situation but it can work for other bulk material.
Items that make it work easier. Lack of sharp corners or parts sticking out. Hard material Rounded or ramped edges on the shuttle Slower speeds
If you use a disk as the shuttle (like the gumball machine) you can ramp the trailing edge so that the top piece scrapes the excess objects off without breaking it up.
A shaded pole gear motor can be small, cheap, and quiet. The constant speed would let you use a one shot timer to advance the disk.
I probably should have prefaced my first post with the details, but time is more precious these days with round-the-clock dog care. I spend perhaps
1/10 the time on the net that I used to. That's got to make at least *some* folks happy! (-: And yes, it's very depressing at times, especially when we lose one. But just tonight I looked at some movies we made of Rascal when she arrived so caked in dirt, blood and other junk it was hard to tell what kind of dog she was. Then I looked at her now and it feels good. No one expected her to survive except my wife. Not even me.
Really? Well, I've got some great candidates. Newspaper and leash trained, basic obedience training and mostly broken of bad habits like shoe chewing, furniture eating, etc. (-:
I've got a choice of pellets from puppy chow (about a 1/4" diameter cylinder) to the larger Beneful treats which are about 1/2" diameter but can be round, pillow or pyramid shaped. It's pretty flexible, the main specifications being that it be at least mildly nutritious and something they don't get every day. We've got a remarkable assortment of dry dog food since sick puppies tend to go off their feed quite often. So for purposes of discussion, let's stick with 1/4 to 3/8" maxium diameter pellets.
I was thinking of something that could be used on a crate-by-crate basis. Some dogs don't need any "quiet" positive reinforcement. The end of the chute should not protrude into the crate area or it will chewed off in short order!
I was thinking of something that operated like a gumball machine where one "operation" should result in a single pellet being dispensed from a hopper that can hold at least one hundred. Maybe I should be looking into buying old paint ball guns on Ebay. (-:
I found that site and made that discovery. )-: Fortunately, though, there was more than enough information there to support my belief that positive "quiet time" reinforcement does work.
That's a good idea. I'll do that even though I am not terribly fond of Yahoo's group interface.
Great! That will certainly be helpful. It may turn out the motor noise will wake the other dogs. List discussions that I've read seem to indicate that they're very attuned to the whirring noise.
I thought of using a disk like a revolver's cylinder. The top of the unit feeds pellets into slots as they pass under the feed hopper's tube. As the cylinder rotates, it eventually passes over a hole to which tube extended into the crate is connected and drops down.
Any motor noise is going to be an issue. So will solenoid clacking, at least from what I've read of people who've tried this. Some even say after a while, they respond to the solenoid click or motor whir and not the food! We'll see. I'm going to look for toys that might be modifiable on my next trip to Wal-mart.
That's what I was originally considering with an old auger bit inside of a plastic or metal pipe. Friction holds the material in the auger and just the stuff at the very bottom drops out. Very appealing because it's low maintenance, and if I use the old electric screwdrivers I have, about as low a motor noise as I can hope for. Maybe an old 110VAC clock motor with enough torque would be able to drive a disk or an auger. The pellet doesn't have to drop instantly. It could take as much as a minute and I think the results would be the same.
Easy, big guy. (-: I should have realized mentioning how likely one is to receive moral as well a technical advice would mushroom. Jack made a not unreasonable assumption that I was some sort of mad scientist trying to keep his dog quiet by electronic bribery. I really should have described the environment more fully. I sort of knew what would happen otherwise.
If I were a mad scientist or a callow dog owner I'd just use a remote shock collar. I've had to use one once on a truly incorrigible dog that would have killed himself chasing cars or other, much, much larger dogs without some sort of serious override of his instincts. My wife hates "training collars" as do many dog enthusiasts but I think they are preferable to squashed or sundered pooches and choke collars. I've only needed them very briefly and very rarely. Unfortunately, a dog trained by aversion is temperamentally different from one trained by positive reinforcement. I always opt for the later unless there's just no other way.
The major supplier seems to be in the middle of switching sources. I'll keep watching Ebay if I don't find a "hackable" Wal-Mart kid's toy.
I think I answered that above. Dogs seem to understand quite clearly when they are being rewarded for sitting still if it's done correctly. The key, I believe, is to make sure they know you are paying attention to their "sitting pretty" moments, and that's easy for people to forget. It's unbelievably easy to get into a situation where you only interact with the dog when you notice it's doing something bad. We both know where that leads: "Gee, master comes to make noises and wag his finger at me when I chew on the chair leg and that's better than ignoring me! What else can I chew?"
They've taught me as much about behavior as I have taught them, especially when they learn something BAD from me, like how to open the refrigerator door.
And thanks to ridiculously cheap color IR cams, each crate is video monitored and hooked into a MUX so I can keep tabs on them all, whether they are in the play area, their crates, or roaming around upstairs or in the yard. When I bought the 16CH MUX boxes from Ebay, I wondered how I would ever fill all 16 channels. It turns out they are just like closets. They fill up just by magic!
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