FCC ID Number Vendors

Wireless devices (and all electronic contrivances) are required to pass Part 15 radiation requirements, before being allowed to be sold in the USA. The FCC ID number is to be inscribed on the serial number tag of the device. FCC 2.925 and 15.19 covers labeling requirements: "...the FCC identifier or the unique identifier, as appropriate, must be displayed on the device."

If you're buying a radio that lacks the proper serial number tag and FCC ID, it's probably not legal.

More detail on labeling requirements:

I've run into difficulties with importers of Chinese commercial radios that lack certification. Some have contrived or borrowed ID numbers, so it pays to check the number.

I think the OP is more interested in obtaining the FCC ID before purchasing and whether the Vendor is legally obliged to provide him with that information if he requests it.

Looking at the 2.295 it would appear that only items covered by 15.101 would have that requirement. "(4) For a transceiver, the receiver portion of which is subject to verification pursuant to § 15.101 of this chapter, the FCC Identifier required for the transmitter portion shall be preceded by the term FCC ID .

(c) [Reserved]

(d) In order to validate the grant of equipment authorization, the nameplate or label shall be permanently affixed to the equipment and shall be readily visible to the purchaser at the time of purchase."

My RT2870 USB adapter is so small, approx 30mm, that it doesn't really comply with the fixed label requirement, but as I live in the UK it doesn't matter. It has an adhesive label, which keeps dropping off, attached to the antenna.

Can anyone answer the question I asked in the original post?

Jeff Liebermann wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

The first part of Jeff's answer makes clear that if they sell stuff in the US, they must put the FCC ID on the case. Failure to do so would result in withdrawal of license and fines.

If you have an FCC ID, you can look it up in the last entry to confirm its valid.

Recently I tried to get 'Airhogs' to reveal any FCC data for certain RC toys; they replied that they self-certified Part 15 compliance and have no OET application or supporting documents on file for the products and have no corresponding FCC ID number.

Sometimes, as the OP has learned, there is no FCC ID.

Michael

Jeff Liebermann wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Of course one cannot look up the number if the vendor won't supply the number and the urls you give don't answer the OP question.

I'd suggest that "airhogs" should get reported to the FCC in that case...

Airhogs is a subsidiary of Spin Master whose FCC ID prefix is PQN.

Mark McIntyre wrote in news:QIpLl.223532$ snipped-for-privacy@en-nntp-08.dc.easynews.com:

What you and Jeff are ignoring throughout this entire thread is that the original poster is referring to products that are marketed on the web and elsewhere, NOT products in hand after purchase, which display NO user ID. The original question remains unanswered, either by you or anyone else here.

Perhaps we were "ignoring" it because the OP didn't make it clear. I'm also unclear what the OP's reason was for wanting to know. I guess you'd want to know the FCC ID because you want to check legality or something?

Has the OP come back in this thread?

The FCC does not distinguish between incidental radiators that are sold, gifted, donated, or otherwise used within the US borders. Somewhere in the rules and regs (I'm too lazy to look) is an itemized list of all the possible buzzwords that qualify for an item to be "sold" in the USA. I'm fairly sure that sold over the internet qualifies for inclusion as being "offered for sale". Once qualified the item must be clearly labeled in accordance with FCC 2.925 and

Re-reading the original question, it possible that the OP is asking if the FCC ID number must be on the outside packaging or otherwise prominently displayed on the advertising literature, web pile, or data sheet. Apparently, this is not the case. The radio must be labeled, not the packaging, literature, data sheet, etc.

The reason the FCC originally provided the FCC ID search site was to comply with a court ruling that demanded that such information be public BEFORE being offered for sale. They really didn't want to do it as back in the stone age of BBS dialup access, it was a rather expensive and time consuming exercise. There was also a problem that a product might have several FCC ID numbers and revisions, which would produce a labeling problem. Providing the necessary information via the internet was deemed easier that dealing with the labeling problem.

There are a substantial number of radios offered for sale on eBay that have not been tested for incidental radiation and do no comply with any FCC regulations. Ostensively, they are being offered for sale outside of the USA and therefore do not require FCC certification. However, they seem to be appearing more and more in place of certified commercial radios. I recently had to do an impromptu troubleshooting exercise on some RF related issues with some handheld radios at a sporting event. The radios were from China, had no serial number tag, no FCC ID, and were little better than junk. However, as they were owned by a charity, I could see their logic as they cost about 1/5th that of a real radio. I'll leave this as a problem for someone else to solve.

Also, please note that having FCC certification does not somehow imply that the product is reliable or suitable for the intended purpose. I've seen some fairly awful designs, that managed to pass Part 15, but don't work very well.

Jeff Liebermann wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

In your opinion, does that obligate USA sellers on the web to cough up the FCC ID number of their radios on request? I looked at the FCC web site urls you gave and could find nothing that addressed this specifically among all their gobbledy gook language which, without a team of Pickwick lawyers is impossible to decipher. Also they don't answer their emails.

This seems to imply that the answer to the question above is "yes" but again, nothing definitive one way or another.

Ok so this is just another implied rule that is never enforced, so what the FCC says really does not matter. Or is it one of these things they do nothing about until someone complains? Follow the yellow brick road to get an answer on this, maybe the WIZARD can return us to Kansa where things make sense.

The way I read the FCC rules, the manufacturers are required to label their devices with the FCC ID number and such. There is no clause requiring pre-sale disclosure. There is also no penalty for doing so. It's yet another example of a "problem" with the way the FCC rules were written. Pre-sale disclosure should be required, as should the FCC ID on any advertising literature, manuals, etc.

Yep. Reading the FCC rules and regs gives me a headache. However, they're much easier reading than the IEEE 802.11(a-z) specifications, which have been known to induce a state closely resembling confusion. However, don't worry, it's not fatal.

Sure they do. You just need to know whom to ask. However, I suggest you reconsider asking the FCC for an informed opinion. I frequently get either the "wrong" answer, that I don't want to hear, or a wild guess based upon nothing better than a wild guess.

Exactly. I try to be very specific and exact, about things that are vague and uncertain.

Nope. They do enforce the labeling requirements. Welcome to the FCC Enforcement Burro:

A look at the most recent headlines kinda shows the FCC's direction. Find the trivial and fine them:

There was some recent "importation of non-compliant" devices in the EB list, but I'm too lazy to dig for the references. Still, it's not too difficult to find radios that lack type certification on eBay.

Nope. Other than revenue enhancement actions, the *ONLY* complaints that the FCC acts on are those that involve terrorism. The Burro of Homeland Security controls enforcement funds. If the complaint doesn't get there attention, nothing happens. I've had some personal experience with such nonsense. I were having problems with fishermen using channels that landed on ham frequencies. Nothing happened until they landed on a local police channel (which is a valid marine channel in Holland). Even the police couldn't get the FCC's attention, so I convinced them to mention to the FCC that these fishermen might be terrorists practicing for some attack by jamming the police frequencies. Obviously baloney, but we were able to get one FCC monitoring van to hang around for about 30 minutes, and then drive away. Of course, that was in the afternoon, which was a waste of effort as the fishermen are only active in the early morning. Welcome to the post 911 FCC.

Admittedly, if Motorola complains about the sale of non-certified radios, there will be some sort of action. However, it will mostly likely occur only after Motorola contributes to the politically correct campaign fund.

Maybe Dorothy and Toto are running the FCC and we never noticed? Pay no attention to the computer behind the curtain.