pir false alarms

My post below didn't say anything about the IR. I suggested that the occurrence of the problem across multiple sensors suggests to me a wiring or brain fault. Period.

I didn't say the installer was "faulty", I said his troubleshooting was half-assed.

I detect an extreme lack of reading and compresension skills on your part. Go back and re-read my post and tell me where I said anything about the physics of infrared detection.

I'm not blaming the installer (who in this case is apparently NOT the ORIGINAL installer either) for the problem, I'm saying he didn't diagnose it properly and was likely more interested in simply selling the OP new hardware.

Believe it or not, this DOES happen.

Of course it is. The ensuing discussion is ostensibly about whether the bill he's been handed is legitimate.

My take is, the installer who's billing him has failed to correctly diagnose the problem and has merely treated the symptoms, and should not be paid for an incomplete job.

He's been sold equipment he probably doesn't NEED, and he's being billed for work that wasn't properly done (ie. determining and FIXING the problem).

In fact, the company I work for specializes more in CCTV, although we do do the odd alarm.

Experience has nothing to do with common sense. Common sense says that this installer has done a lousy job of troubleshooting, has apparently not found the actual cause of the problem and is merely patching up the symptoms, and from that may simply be interested in selling the OP new hardware (probably with a healthy markup) as a "quick fix".

Isn't that how a PIR works?

My take was when he said SUMMER and PIR that can = problems with false alarms. If one cheap PIR can't take the environment without falsing, a replacement cheap PIR won't be able to either I suspect. I have never used a Pyronix Magnum Ultra. If they're in league with a Rokonet I can only ask how many Rokonet detectors have you tossed out as junk? They don't even fix the broken links on their web site let alone their equipment. When replaced by a dual tech the problem stops from "but last summer we had false alarms almost once per week". How does that point to what you are saying is the cause? If it were a wiring or "brain fault" the problem would continue. Perhaps the falsing would be even worse since a Dual Techs usually draw more power than a single tech PIR. The price difference between a PIR and a Dual Tech is small compared to the total charge for labor and materials for a service call to swap the detector(s). How could that small delta be a "motive" for anything?

I don't know what trouble shooting the technician did or didn't do and you don't either, but if the problem is fixed now its seems there was nothing half assed about it.

If CCTV is your forte then haven't you ever experience a DVR problem where >> IR radiation is naturally ocurring and its sources are everywhere. Now

The installer's job is to make the false alarms stop, not to determine the precise cause of those false alarms. In other words, replacing relatively low-cost equipment like PIRs is often cheaper than making multiple service visits to try and nail down the exact reason the substandard PIR went off.

If the customer is in a city that charges for false alarms, it's even more important to get the problem fixed immediately. In this case, replacing the sensors made the false alarms stop. Now, if he had installed three new dual-tecs and the false alarms continued, I would expect the tech to make a healthy adjustment in the bill, and spend more time figuring out what was really going on.

The cost of the parts vs. the cost of troubleshooting labor is what counts. I gather you work mostly on more expensive video components, where it makes good economic sense to spend more time troubleshooting. With a PIR, weigh the cost of the part against one additional service call, and it just makes more sense to change the damn thing.

- badednov

And if the problem is in the wiring, or the brain, or as someone else speculated, being caused by EMI, then simply swapping a PIR isn't only going to be a temporary patch. He's now replaced one PIR, and the problem is occurring in two other zones, once again causing false alarms.

By your thinking, the obvious solution is not to arm the system, thus stopping the false alarms once and for all.

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this!" "Then don't do that..."

Alright, so the next time a customer complains that their MUX is beeping, and I find the cause is a video-loss alarm caused by a camera being out, I guess the fix is to just go into the MUX menu and disable the VL alarm.

When warm (or cool) air moves across in front of the

the detector is unaffected.

Well in response, I guess all I can say is that you're "dead" wrong. Oppps! There I go again .... using the ole "D" word.

detector. The latter can easily trip many PIR

I tell ya what. I'll give you a little task to perform, inbetween treatments. Call up a manufacturer, as to speak to an engineer and ask him if he'll guarentee you that a PIR wont trip if a rapid change in temperature changes within it's FOV.

PIR. But it is not a problem unless the air

You're wrong Death Breath. Dead wrong. There's not a alarm tech out there with any field experience (Unlike you) who hasn't had a problem with rapid changing air temperature within it's FOV, causing a false alarm on a PIR.

You don't know that. I don't know that. The OP doesn't know that, and neither does his installer. He may have ended up with the problem fixed, or he may have ended up with a band-aid and the problem will reappear tomorrow. From what I've read, my bet is the latter. If the installer had done the job properly, there would be no question.

That would be lovely. I'd love to go into every customer's site and shitcan their MUXes and VCRs and shelves full of tapes on the spot and drop in shiny new DVRs, and even roundfile their analog cameras in exchange for nice hi-res IP cameras while I'm at it.

Unfortunately I'm not in a position to bankroll that little project myself, and convincing most of them to do so is generally futile, especially the oil companies where the individual site owners expect corporate to pay for it all, and corporate has no intention of upgrading anything outside their own long-term schedule.

I *love* it. Half the problems can be fixed remotely from the comfort of my nice big office chair.

Alas, making the change is not up to me.

Hello I have been reading the posts on this board for about a year now. I have picked up some good tips thanks. My Question is why does everyone have to fight with each other? Cant you all just answer the question without fighting with each other? Well I hope I have not insulted anyone by asking this question. Cant we all just get along?

I haven't been here nearly that long but it seems some folks here have a long history and love to show hate for each other. (Except for the civil Thanksgiving posts. I have yet to figure that one out. It sort of reminds me of one of those old cartoons where the two antagonist punch on the clock at the beginning of the day, fight like hell, then punch off and behave kindly to each other.) It doesn't take much, if anything, in any post to get the fur to fly. I don't anything will change that anytime soon. I don't think anyone could change it. Too much history. But if you want to know an industry where the real dust ups occur try here: Matrimonial law work is currently a staggering $28 billion-a-year industry.

`Whats the fun in that?

I'll bet you know all the words to Goombya.

Is that the Brooklyn version of Cum-ba-ya? js

Stop taunting grandpa!

:-) js

Yeah, but I think it originated in New Jersey.

Sorry, but thank goodness ....... no grandchildren.