WiFi at Sea (technical, sorry)

I've got a 250 ma client bridge connected to a WIFI antenna mounted on my radar arch, about 11 feet above the waterline. The client bridge is in a stern lazarette connected just eight cable feet from the antenna. An Ethernet cable connects it back to the nav table in the main salon. Since the client bridge had a 120 VAC to 12 VDC power supply I just power it directly from the ship's battery power.

I spent the summer in Maine and the reception was absolutely remarkable. Several times like in Smith Cove, Castine, Maine I had hi-speed data and VoIP in the middle of nowhere. I still cannot figure out where I was receiving it from. I could see The Maine Maritime Academy's WIFI network from Smith Cove and their closest transmitter was two miles away.. Even in Tenants Harbor, ME we had uninterrupted internet and VOIP. Many times in larger cities I had to look for a "Free" WIFI site since BEACON WIFI and several other commercial ventures had the strongest signals. It is pretty quick to get a selective SSID so working around the commercial folks was pretty easy.

I also have KVH DirecTV/Hughes satellite on board.

Take care.

Cap'n Ric S/V Sezaneh

Ric, what is your bridge make and model? We got great reception on our first sail today, when Lydia got a phone call even further out than the original post. However, I'm not at all happy with the Senao unit and would consider an upgrade if I could get it in the same space; 250mw would improve our already good reach a bit, but the ability to select around the commercial sites which want to hijack and redirect the signal is a real PITA not to have...

Thanks...

L8R

Skip, with the electronics installer coming tomorrow

Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at

Skip, which Senao client/bridge are you using? I was looking at the specs of the NOC-3220-EXT recently and it sounded interesting but I have not tried it yet.

To solve your "hijack" problem you need client software that will allow you to select an access point by MAC address in addition to SSID. Some will do that but I dont't know about the Senao.

You can download the data sheet and manual here:

I apologize for my lack of geeky-ness, but what is this device and where do I get one? We've used directional and non-directional wi-fi antennas in the past, and while they seem to improve our reception over just using the antenna in our laptop, it's not an order-of-magnitude improvement -- and it sounds as if your improvement is way more than that!

I thought a bridge was for working the other way, from hardwired bb connection to wi-fi. But from what you say, it's like having an incredibly sensitive antenna for your wi-fi connection. This is something I want to have!

Thanks,

Rob S/V Akka Lanzarote, Canary Islands

Cap'n Ric wrote:

Skip,

Did you build your own antenna? I didn't understand that from the post. Depending on the height of the antenna from the surface of the water, you'll get different a different emission pattern ("donut"). If you really want long range, you can build yourself a directional antenna. I don't know anything about wifi antennas and the way that signal is polarized, but you could use either 2 dipoles or a Yagi sort of setup, minus the parasitic directors. A two-dipole directional setup requires two identical antennas, parallel and next to each other, emitting in phase, and seperated by 1/2 wavelength (about 6.25cm in the case of wifi, unless I'm mistaken about the freq). The emission will near zero in the plane of the two dipoles, and maximum in the plane perpenticular to that. With a Yagi sort of setup, you just need a passive (isolated) reflector 1/4 wavelength from the emitting antenna, parallel to it. There'll be nearly no signal behind the reflector in the antenna/reflector plane, and maximum signal in front of the antenna in the antenna/reflector plane. The reflector is just a conductive rod approximately the same length as your antenna. For the exact geometry of the reflector, you'd have to search on the internet.

With a directional setup like that, if you were at anchor somewhere you could turn your antenna until you got maximum reception. You'd add greatly to your range. Maybe someone manufactures directional wifi antennas, though they'd likely be priced out of this world.

-Max Camirand

Skip Gundlach wrote:

Oops, I think I misunderstood the original post. Sorry group.

-Max Camirand

You can buy omni-directional antennas with relatively high gain - 9 to

In order to avoid feed line losses between the antenna and the wifi client/bridge, Skip has chosen to mount his bridge at the top of the mast close to the antenna, and power the bridge via the ethernet cable

- Power Over Ethernet, aka, POE.

Skip,

I have a Senao 2611CB3. It is 802.11B only. I have a NCB-3220 on order. It is 400mw and 802.11G. It also supports WPA.

Cap'n Ric

You can order them at

Cap'n Ric

In fact, that is where I ordered my gear. I can't recommend them unless you are totally familiar with networking protocols and whatever else may be needed to make your setup work, as, despite being a nice fellow, Basil won't help you set it up - he'll only direct you to the Senao website for firmware upgrades, and if you ask him to configure something which will do what I'm trying to do, he'll send you the same stuff I got, which patently doesn't work without some intervention from other gear - and when it doesn't work, won't take it back. (That's an extremely long story, very technical for any but the techies, and not the point of this discussion, so I'll not put it here.) It is extraordinarily far from plug and play, and many network experts, even a user with exactly the same setup as I was trying to make happen, were unsuccessful in getting our setup to work as it was sold to me.

At that, even with the router in between (the solution to the IP conflicts which were making the other not work), now, there's something messed up with the Pay service (which hijacked my signal, redirecting to their site, because, now, with the bridge and antenna high up, it saw that as the best and locked on to it, as distinct shortcoming of this particular unit, of which, more, anon) because I'm back to having to put it directly into a configured NIC to set it, then transfer it to a DHCP NIC to surf and connect. It will no longer talk to the Vonage router, which means, of course, no phone, and also no AP for wifi connectivity (defined as no wires between the computer and the outside world), the point(s) of this entire exercise.

Now, before the folks in aiw get all exercised, I admitted long ago that I don't even know enough to ask the right questions, let alone have the answers, so I'm sure there's something I'm overlooking out of ignorance. I'd love to be shown my error, but, again, it's an awfully long story, and not the point of this post.

So, I'll say that it used to work very well. That it doesn't, any more, is just another problem which I'll eventually overcome, I expect

-but I certainly hope that it doesn't take as long as it did to get it set up the first time.

I was thrilled, especially after having spent literally more than a year to get it to even talk to the outside world, let alone have it work miles out in the Bay. I have two Senao 2611CB3 Plus Deluxe, configurable to either AP or Bridge. I have an 8.5dBi omni stick from Hypertech, just down the street from wlansolutions, as Basil walked over to get it when putting this together, and a 5.5 duck for the AP. I originally was going to have it all in one box up the mast, one power supply, but as they would absolutely not talk together when joined by a crossover, and the solution turned out to be a router in between, I abandoned that, as seen in the pictures, and put only the bridge aloft.

I configure the bridge to a blank SSID, which makes it look for the strongest signal. That's ok, but in this case, that caused it to redirect to their signin page. Otherwise, were that not the case, I could then go into the configuration page and specify which of the available ones, even those not shown, perhaps from a hidden SSID, or one I know to be available at less strength than the first (and limited to) 8 shown, such as I did before the pay site hijacked the signal.

Were I to do it again I most certainly would not do that setup. There are other pairs which will do the job more effectively, and not require a router in between. However, as VoIP is a very critical component of our connectivity, the Vonage router works out (the current unpleasantness aside).

Thus the question about your bridge; a slight increase in power would be nice, and a point and click selection would be even nicer, particularly if I can avoid redirection in which I'm now embroiled.

Hope that was responsive to the couple of questions answered :{))

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at

In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it.

Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

If your browser home page requires *any* DNS access to get to it, you will get redirected to the signin page on most commercial wireless ISPs. Similarly, if the router has got the DNS server address from the ISP via DHCP, and your bridge has a 'friendly' name for its configuration page rather than a dotted IP address, you will end up at the signin page again :-(

Set your home page to blank then try accessing the bridge by its ip address rather than by name. The url should be of the form http://nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn/ fill in the correct numbers for your setup.

If that works for you, BOOKMARK the location in that format or maybe set it as your home page.

Check out Inscape Data Corp

Ansley Sawyer SV Pacem

Would that it did - My reaction comes from merely typing in the URL (the way I usually reach the bridge to configure it) in nnn.nnn.nnn.nnn format, whereupon the pay site(s? - I've not been in an area with more than one at the moment, though the readout shows many presumed pay sites as well, some of which have more strength, but not as good a communications level)) redirects to their signin page.

The bridge has no name - there's not a place to name it, even. In AP format, I could name the AP if I wanted, as well as the SSID. However, the bridge is notable only from its MAC address. Setting my home page to a blank (no characters on the line) has no effect - and in any case, unless I were to click the home icon, other than at startup, the home page would not appear.

So, I'm looking into (don't really know where to look - one of the cites in this thread looks promising but I have to say that I'm so gun shy about Senao that I'd want to see one working before I went through anything remotely like what I have with wlansolutions) some other bridge which would see all available without selecting one for me, and let me push a radio button rather than have to type in the actual name. In this area, at least, while not so in my particular location at the moment, there are many instances of duplicate SSID names.

The one I have (from the wlansolutions website "Multi-Client Bridge/Access Point Module Prism 2.5 High Power (200mW) 2611 CB3 PLUS MD" - the module, not enclosed version - 200, not 250mw, though Ric has the same product name unit - perhaps in the desktop version - on his boat) requires typing in the SSID - which, if there are more than one of the same name, makes for pot luck in selection. If, as should be possible, the scan shows two of the same name, a given MAC should show, and if that one is selected, that should be the one for the bridge to associate.

So, perhaps better covered in a different thread, are there any other suggestions for client bridge replacement candidates - ones which would allow me to click my bookmark/favorite/whatever to reach the configuration page, and point and click on the desired connection point

- but also *not* connect to any until asked, regardless of strength??

BTW, at least at the moment, the link Ansley provided stalls and goes nowhere when attempting any info other than the home page...

Thanks for all the dialogue. I'm passing it along to various other non-subscribers to see if there's a solution visible.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at

In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it.

Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

If no DNS lookup is being done, there should be absolutely NO oppertunity for a redirect. Its possible that the router you have put in between your LAN and the bridge is causing this behaviour. You

Another possibility is you have one of the many varieties of 'search assistant' or internet 'booster' malware on your PC that is trying to reach its homepage and is therefore triggering the wireless ISP login redirect. A full scan with a number of different spyware and virus scanners is probably a good idea at this point.

Do you ever get this redirection when trying to access the Router config page?

If you are goint to take this to a new thread I suggest dropping r.b.b and *possibly* r.b.c due to the extremely technical content and tenuous connection with boating.

You may also want to ask about this issue on the LOCAL newsgroups (they are NOT part of USENET) at GRC. N.B. web access is currently read only so to ask a question there, you will need to configure a newsreader. You probably want the group grc.techtalk. Start by reading

I disagree with that advice.

There are *many* of us doing serious cruising and looking for ways to enhance our internet WiFi connectivity. Skip is well into the advanced course with what he is trying to do, and I for one follow his networking adventures with great interest.

I think your recommendation to try and connect without the Vonage router is a good suggestion towards isolating the problem.

You've been told this info before, several times. You're trying to use gear that plainly does not do what you want. Stop trying. Use gear that's known to do what you're after.

It's trivial, get a pair of WRT54G routers, use one as a link to the shore. Use the other as a on-boat access point, wired to the first one. Done. Then it's just a trivial matter to browse to the shore linking device, picking the on-shore SSID desired and you're done.

I'm sure that the WRT54Gs work fine in your configuration,

but:

- I don't believe they are weather proof.

- I'm pretty sure they are not high power ( > 50 mw )

- Do no directly support Power Over Ethernet (POE)

So although they can potentially do the job, they are not exactly ideal for mounting up the mast in an extended range application.

Wayne,

Have you looked at the Inscape Data Corp CB54E?

I am considering it for the top of my mast.

Tell me what you think.

Ansley Sawyer SV Pacem

Weatherproof and not working is not a solution. There are any number of ways to put something into a box. But to that end, I put my WRT54G in the radar arch last spring. As of winter it's shown no signs whatsoever of corrosion.

You are incorrect. It's adjustable. But high-power does not mean better functionality. This is a very common misconception.

Again, if it doesn't work, what's the point. POE isn't all it's cracked up to be if you're not using effective gauge wire. Wire that's too thin will cause voltage drop.

If you want it to work then building a box or running wire is a trivial fix.