Safe Room Door Lock

This was a last minute decision (aren't they all). The door is wood, the room is block, but the frame out is wood. I guess they'll hide the hinges with the shelving - it's not gonna be 100% invisible obviously..it coulda been if they had consulted with me 2 months ago instead of yesterday.

I'm thinking of hiding the control/pwr supply & backup outside the room instead of inside since I want the lock to fail-secure...whaddya think? Of course a rex button inside the room.

| > I don't think a door strike will work as it will be visible. | >

| > Any other ideas before I rough it in tomorrow? | >

| >

| >

| | |

Mag locks are fine for safe rooms as long as you provide lots of backup power and a panic release for the magnet. Also, assuming this is to protect the homeowners in the event of a break-in, I would use a 1200 lb lock. A good size screwdriver can easily deliver 600 lbs of leveraged force to pry the door open. Recommend to the client that they leave a cell phone inside the room at all times.

I had a client who used an old fallout shelter in his basement as a safe room. Turns out nasties from the inner city were more of a threat than the USSR. His room had a manually operated bar lock across the door. Whoever built the place was really into preparedness. There were shelves with provisions for something like 90 days for two or three people, a toilet, a hand-pumped well and stuff. When my customer bought the house the previous owner left everything intact.

BTW, did you see the movie "Safe Room?"

Yes saw the movie.

It's really not intended to be a people safe-room although it could sorta be one...more of an informal secured room in a snow-bird house for him to hide large paintings and shit like that.

I doubt though that a screwdriver could pry opened (towards you) a 600lb mag lock...I've tried blasting against one that opened away and couldn't do it with my massive super strength :-)

| > Any other ideas before I rough it in tomorrow? |

I forced a 600-lb lock open with my shoulder once and I'm only of average strength -- not exactly a weight lifter. :^) It really wasn't all that tough. They're not intended to keep bad guys out

-- more for limiting movement of personnel. If there's a wall or other rigid, parallel structure nearby, a strong man could open the door using leg pressure. It's surprising the amount of pressure even an average adult can deliver in a leg press.

Consider the leverage of a 12" long screwdriver with 1/2" inserted into the space between the door and the frame. There's a 23/1 mechanical advantage. The thief only has to apply about

30-35 lbs of force. Note: If it were linear motion the figure would be just over 26 pounds, but the screwdriver is describing a circular arc so the required force in a tangential direction increases somewhat.

If the door opens away from the lock it's even easier -- take a run and hit it with your shoulder. I weigh just over 200 pounds. At a 15 mph sprint that's more than enough force to pop a 600-lb lock. With a 1200 pound lock it would be significantly harder to pop. If you use an 1800 pound lock the required force would destroy the door before the magnet would give way. :^)

The difference in cost between a 600 and a 1200 or 1800 pound lock isn't all that much. You might want to explain the options and let the client decide what he wants to spend. Most folks will part with a few extra dollars if they can see a significant advantage in the hardware.

Don't ya luv it..

Your call... but, if the door fails secure, which it should, and the perp has access to the control, you need to consider a mechanical type rex button (pneumatic type possibly) and not an electronic type rex device and that connection needs to stay within the protected area and not the control/pwr supply. I usually add an emergency button and if budget allows a dedicated phone line, which I also use for the alarm panel. I put a wall phone in as well. Safe rooms can be used for storm protection as well as personnal protection during a crime. A phone is handy as long as there is service. I know someone here mentioned a cellphone, but in a bunker you don't alway have cell signal, so I would be leary of limiting it to this suggestion alone. Have electrical outlet for TV/Radio and an exhaust fan. Put the light on a dimmer switch. Total light or total darkness can get to a person if they spend an extended amount of time in there. Any wall that is not block or concrete, line with 3/4" plywood before drywall. Makes the door jamb a little tricky but that is why they have split jambs or extention jambs. But then again you said this one is to late...Oh well...there is always next time.

OK, your judgement call

Nice sales pitch but not likely. A properly installed door does not leave enough room between the door and the jamb to get a **good sized** screwdriver in for the leverage you are referring to

Right...and leave it charging and make sure it has continuos signal in a bunker and make sure the kids don't take it and when they change providers, remember that phone which has been hidden in the basement for the last 10 years. Your expecting alot Robert.

I think everyone here has already made that assumption

Not when the door swings outward. Please read and understand the OP post before you grace us with your vast knowledge.

This coming from not exactly a weight lifter by his own admission.

You sure like that fraction. Didn't we hear the same thing about a drill bit just recently.

The force would be downward, not outward, with only a 1/2" insertion on 1

3/4" door. The best the perp could expect is to take a chunk out of the door and only if the shank of the screwdriver didn't bend upward first.

Have to break out the old slide rule for that line of BS there, Robert?

Have you ever seen a door open into the lock? BAHAHAHAHAHA....Do you know how to spell Door Stop?? Stop Robert...I can't take it any more...I am LOL until my side hurts. Why don't you drop the 4 online stores and do Stand Up? I don't think people would pay but you are hilarious.

-- take a

BAHAHAHAHAHA....just?......just?

Lets think about this for kicks and giggles. A safe room is probably... what

6'X8'? Maybe 8'X10'? and you want someone to get to a 15mph sprint in that distance. Riiiightttt! And why should they do this? To get out? Remember the door swings out. All they have to do is hit the rex button. Why take a chance on injuring their shoulder? Next, a perp could take a 15mph run, which is questionable inside any structure, at it and if the door is installed properly, with or without a mag of any size most likely will bounce off the door and land on his ass. Why, because, again Robert, the door swings outward. Your propensity to quickly jump in and cast your opinions vastly outweights your understanding of what you read. Your so easy, but keep it coming, if for nothing more than kicks and giggles.

With a 1200 pound lock it would be significantly harder to

Astute observation

Brilliant

As presented by RLB.

All block except the roof. Yep, gonna do a phone and low voltage backup lighting.

Still undecided about putting power in or out of room.

| > I'm thinking of hiding the control/pwr supply & backup outside the room | > instead of inside since I want the lock to fail-secure...whaddya think? | | Your call... but, if the door fails secure, which it should, and the perp | has access to the control, you need to consider a mechanical type rex button | (pneumatic type possibly) and not an electronic type rex device and that | connection needs to stay within the protected area and not the control/pwr | supply. I usually add an emergency button and if budget allows a dedicated | phone line, which I also use for the alarm panel. I put a wall phone in as | well. Safe rooms can be used for storm protection as well as personnal | protection during a crime. A phone is handy as long as there is service. I | know someone here mentioned a cellphone, but in a bunker you don't alway | have cell signal, so I would be leary of limiting it to this suggestion | alone. Have electrical outlet for TV/Radio and an exhaust fan. Put the light | on a dimmer switch. Total light or total darkness can get to a person if | they spend an extended amount of time in there. Any wall that is not block | or concrete, line with 3/4" plywood before drywall. Makes the door jamb a | little tricky but that is why they have split jambs or extention jambs. But | then again you said this one is to late...Oh well...there is always next | time. | |

It's 8" block wall with fully grouted cells and rebar. The door will be mostly concealed including the hinges (dunno how but the guy is loaded so if there is such a thing he will buy it). There won't be any visible door knob or hardware so I think prying th door outward, even with only a 600lb mag lock will be pretty darn difficult. Also, the perp will have to pass at least 3 layers of an ADT alarm system to get to where the room is.

Yah ADT beat me to the remodel...but given they've already had 3 false alarms since we've been there so dunno how long that relationship will last. I met with the sheriff today and I asked him what zone ADT dispatched on and he said they didn't give him any info...just the alarm dispatch...weird...we always dispatch with a zone description. Ah well.

I hate prewiring for another company, but I am anyway. I know my prices are more reasonable then their's would be.

"Bob Worthy" wrote in message news:PFuGf.860$ snipped-for-privacy@bignews5.bellsouth.net... | | "Robert L Bass" wrote in message | | > > I doubt though that a screwdriver could pry opened (towards you) a

600lb | mag | > > lock...I've tried blasting against one that opened away and couldn't do | it | > > with my massive super strength :-) | >

| > I forced a 600-lb lock open with my shoulder once and I'm only of | > average strength -- not exactly a weight lifter. | | I think everyone here has already made that assumption | | > If there's a wall or | > other rigid, parallel structure nearby, a strong man could open | > the door using leg pressure. | | Not when the door swings outward. Please read and understand the OP post | before you grace us with your vast knowledge. | | >It's surprising the amount of | > pressure even an average adult can deliver in a leg press. | | This coming from not exactly a weight lifter by his own admission. | | > Consider the leverage of a 12" long screwdriver with 1/2" | | You sure like that fraction. Didn't we hear the same thing about a drill bit | just recently. | | > inserted into the space between the door and the frame. There's | > a 23/1 mechanical advantage. | | The force would be downward, not outward, with only a 1/2" insertion on 1 | 3/4" door. The best the perp could expect is to take a chunk out of the door | and only if the shank of the screwdriver didn't bend upward first. | | > The thief only has to apply about | > 30-35 lbs of force. Note: If it were linear motion the figure | > would be just over 26 pounds, but the screwdriver is describing a | > circular arc so the required force in a tangential direction | > increases somewhat. | | Have to break out the old slide rule for that line of BS there, Robert? | >

| > If the door opens away from the lock it's even easier | | Have you ever seen a door open into the lock? BAHAHAHAHAHA....Do you know | how to spell Door Stop?? Stop Robert...I can't take it any more...I am LOL | until my side hurts. Why don't you drop the 4 online stores and do Stand Up? | I don't think people would pay but you are hilarious. | | -- take a | > run and hit it with your shoulder. I weigh just over 200 pounds. | | BAHAHAHAHAHA....just?......just? | | > At a 15 mph sprint that's more than enough force to pop a 600-lb | > lock. | | Lets think about this for kicks and giggles. A safe room is probably... what | 6'X8'? Maybe 8'X10'? and you want someone to get to a 15mph sprint in that | distance. Riiiightttt! And why should they do this? To get out? Remember the | door swings out. All they have to do is hit the rex button. Why take a | chance on injuring their shoulder? Next, a perp could take a 15mph run, | which is questionable inside any structure, at it and if the door is | installed properly, with or without a mag of any size most likely will | bounce off the door and land on his ass. Why, because, again Robert, the | door swings outward. | Your propensity to quickly jump in and cast your opinions vastly outweights | your understanding of what you read. Your so easy, but keep it coming, if | for nothing more than kicks and giggles. | | With a 1200 pound lock it would be significantly harder to | > pop. | | Astute observation | | > If you use an 1800 pound lock the required force would | > destroy the door before the magnet would give way. | | Brilliant | | >Most folks | > will part with a few extra dollars if they can see a significant | > advantage in the hardware. | | As presented by RLB. | | |

The guy is 'loaded' and he went with an ADT resi system?!? Holy false alarms, Batman. Tell him to part with a few bucks and have a real alarm installed. He might also be interested to know that over 24,000 people have access to MasterMind, and thus, his password and other vital info.

Frank, you might have to add this one to your classic Doug L post for future reference.

Crash,

I have Worthless filtered so I don't usually read his drivel. What I shared with you was for your benefit since you asked for opinions on the plan -- not some sort of contest to show who knows best.

If you believe a 600 pound lock will hold, go for it. I'd try to get the client to spring for a stronger lock if he's keeping valuable paintings and such in there. However, you know the client and you probably have a good handle on what he wants.

snip

I think everyone here has already made that assumption

Not when the door swings outward. Please read and understand the OP post before you grace us with your vast knowledge.

This coming from not exactly a weight lifter by his own admission.

You sure like that fraction. Didn't we hear the same thing about a drill bit just recently.

The force would be downward, not outward, with only a 1/2" insertion on 1

3/4" door. The best the perp could expect is to take a chunk out of the door and only if the shank of the screwdriver didn't bend upward first.

Have to break out the old slide rule for that line of BS there, Robert?

Have you ever seen a door open into the lock? BAHAHAHAHAHA....Do you know how to spell Door Stop?? Stop Robert...I can't take it any more...I am LOL until my side hurts. Why don't you drop the 4 online stores and do Stand Up? I don't think people would pay but you are hilarious.

-- take a

BAHAHAHAHAHA....just?......just?

Lets think about this for kicks and giggles. A safe room is probably... what

6'X8'? Maybe 8'X10'? and you want someone to get to a 15mph sprint in that distance. Riiiightttt! And why should they do this? To get out? Remember the door swings out. All they have to do is hit the rex button. Why take a chance on injuring their shoulder? Next, a perp could take a 15mph run, which is questionable inside any structure, at it and if the door is installed properly, with or without a mag of any size most likely will bounce off the door and land on his ass. Why, because, again Robert, the door swings outward. Your propensity to quickly jump in and cast your opinions vastly outweights your understanding of what you read. Your so easy, but keep it coming, if for nothing more than kicks and giggles.

With a 1200 pound lock it would be significantly harder to

Astute observation

Brilliant

As presented by RLB.

Loaded aint the werd man. Originally it looks like a Pro 1 abortion, that ADT tried to clean up a bit. Safewatch Pro 3000 but what a rat's nest of wired and wireless. Holes cut in walls that aren't patched. A 5 buck surge protector strip from Home Depot with the transformers plugged into it laying on a shelf. Why do people bend the antenna on 5881's at right angles to the wall instead of positioning the receiver so they lay flat and vertical? (rhetorically asked).

I missed getting it by a week or two, so now he's locked in for a while.

One thing I'd not seen before is these little intercom looking things next to each keypad (like the DSC thingies) the seem to connect into the back of the keypads I know this because they notched the drywall and didn't spackle the notch. Did I mention this is a million+ dollar home? Looks like krap. Is there an intercom feature for the 3000? The homeowner doesn't seem to know what they are for either!...wierd cause he just had all this work done recently.

So when I'm leaving there today and yakking with the sheriff's deputy I turn and look up the hill at the retaining wall that holds this house from sliding down the mountain and theres: a ADT sign, then a few feet over a Pro

1 sign, and just enough room for me to install my sign in a few years :-))))) - only I usually remove everyone else's sign.

Money aint a big concern, so maybe I'll go higher poundage, doesnt cost that much more...size may be an issue though.

This being a PG rated newsgroup, I'll let that one go by. :^)

Then error to the side of safety. Go inside.

"I have Worthless filtered so I don't usually read his drivel".

C "Just over 200 pounds"

Sure Mr. BAss...70 ain't just over....... It would be fair to say you're just under 300 pounds.....

You're lieing again Mr. BAss.

Let's see ..... was that 30 pounds under 300, or 29 pounds, or 28 pounds, or 27 pounds, or 26 pounds, or 25 pounds.......

Sounds like another lie you write about. How many years have you been in the business?

You lie Mr. BAss..... You Lie.......

Norm Mugford

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?