NFPA 730 & 731 Pass

The store was given away not by those who voted for 730 & 731, but by those who didn't vote against them.

Doug L

Nick, I agree that 730 / 731 is a waste but I doubt it's going to make it easier for thieves. As for lawyers, they always find something to do anyway. :^)

We now have the perfect hand book available to criminals and terrorists Plus plenty of opurtunity to subbregate against municipal officails when a system is defeated it is going to be a field day for lawyers. Thank you all who voted for 730 and 731 my self and brother1st responders who agree with me want to thank you for making this country less safe .And possibly put our lives in jeopardy when we respond to an incident since you gave the store away to terrorists and criminal elements. Remember these words when the first big alarm defeat goes down and people get hurt or killed.

A few always decide for the masses. It is well documented throughout history. In this case, who can vote? First you must be a member by a certain date in order to vote, set up that way to control the vote. If you notice, an issue doesn't go public until it is to late to join. Keeps the people who are against an issue from rushing into membership just to vote. Secondly, you must be in attendance at the meeting. How many are willing to or can afford last minute tickets to BFE to say yeh or neh. They won't do it. No absentee ballots, no online voting. So know they have cut the votes down even more. This will sit on dusty shelf because there is no one that will adopt it and if they do there will be no one to enforce it.

Bob4Secur

I agree Bob........The NFPA Board got paid for their time.

Bob,

I for one hope you are right, about no one adopting it. However, I have a feeling that if the municipalities and county gov'tal bodies out there get hold of this, learn of this, they will be very tempted to institutionalize it in such a manner that their respective building departments can generate additional revenue via the plans examination, permit, and inspection process--most likely under the auspices of the electrical inspection department. Al

Generally speaking, how many muni's, nationally, have a permit process now? Secondly, of those how many actually have a difference, in the process, for those systems that are to be a "certified system" and those that are just the mass marketer's "basic system"? and third, of those that have a permit requirement, how many ask for plan submittal? I am talking burg here not fire. When dealing in these circles, not only do they not have the money or man power but there is virtually no one, in these departments that is qualified or knows anything about design of burg systems for there to be a plan review. They only thing they know is what is pertinent the NEC. Because of that, there is no city or county attorney that will sign off on it. They don't want plans to be submitted, because once there is submittal, the plans become public record. They don't want the liability of having security plans or having to release plans due to a request from, who knows who, on a "request for release of public records", which anyone can do. In this instance, the less they see, the better they like it. If anything, it may be simply referenced in some ordinance, such as the CPO1 standard is, but no one knows what it is or how to enforce it.

Bob4Secur

>

Bob,

What you have said is mostly true, but I can assure you, where I live at the county level a plans examination for a simple burglar alarm is required under certain conditions. Yes, they say they look at wiring issues, installation of same. They do use NEC, for sure, and they never say they are looking at placement of detectors, type of sensors, etc., only to make sure the wiring is installed to code.

In most instances, at this time they only require that you fill out a green card with the permit fee attached when doing a simple burglar alarm system, especially in retrofit situations. They do come out and inspect your work, however. But, when there's an architect, EE, and blueprints involved, which also means fire, they will often require the burglar alarm, CCTV, etc. be included on the print. I'm sure you've run into this as well. Residential is not an issue and may never be in the foreseeable future, but that does not mean it could not change in the distant future.

I believe that when these building departments are armed with a code/standard document like NFPA 731, they will move the burglar alarm installation process to the plans examination level. The plans examiner must have a national code to follow, and this document, for good or bad, will give them that, don't you think?

Al

instances, at this time they only require that you fill out a

We have 104 cities in the tri-county area, down here, and most, plus their respective county, have a permit requirement much as you have discribed. Some are more serious than others about their inspections and some take the money but there is no inspection. Out of the total number of cities, only one requires plans, which are kept, and one other reviews the prints but they make sure they are given back because of the liability. The others don't want to see them at all.

Residential is not an issue and may never be in

We need to permit everything, including residential.

Only if the industry allows it. We, the Association, had to go to the Attorney Generals office to deal with the public records situation on security. Because of 9/11 and after the AG's decision there is no document that deals with security that shall become public record in Florida.

Bob W.

Where I'm from, you submut three sets of plans, all of which are stamped if approved. Two of them go back to you and the other stays at the county level. Every county in this area of Ohio does this, as they must have a copy on file. Are you sure they give all copies back?

For example, when I was back out in the field before going back to writing full time last October (I worked for a large electrical contractor as a project manager after resigning from SDM in the fall of

2000), I was involved in the engineering of an addressable fire and security system in a large home center store. Because this was a new store there was a master permit number on the job, so when I did the blueprints, both security and fire had to be on the plans. When I called the county involved the other day to ask about accessiblity to approved prints, I was told that anyone with a written request could see any plan they have, banks or otherwise. When I asked if they verified identity, the answer was, NO.

It's not a big deal now, but it never is until people discover the code, the money making potential of that code, and they beat the public down little at a time until they are able to fully implement that code.

Where are you from, county and state would be fine. Where I'm from, you can't run a speaker wire without a permit. If it's a job that involves fire and you're installing security as well, the security will be on the print. Even speakers, microphones, you name it. Pretty much anything with a wire will be on that print when it involves a job that requires a master permit.

All this code will do is institutionalize the plans examination process where there wasn't any. Why? Because there'se a code to hang their hat on, like 72 and 101, 13, 10, etc., etc., etc. Only, security is a dangerous animal to cage by requiring uniform equipment and installation. This is my personal opinion, however.

If it's done right a person who knows what is installed and where it is still won't be able to defeat the system. If it's one of those near useless "mini systems" a lot of alarm companies are pushing, most thieves can get past it without any documentation at all.

A Concord Express isn't what he's talking about, you are thinking of this

You mean like this one??

Nope. I was referring to one of these:

are some of the best systems for DIY installation.

Ohh... right... I wonder how many of those he actually "pushes" on his customers... :-))