Here's a funny one. Town of Huntington, NY can waive the installation of 120V interconnected smoke detectors if a listed control panel with fire capability is installed in a residential occupancy. The kick is the building inspector says that Residential Code of NY requires tha system be powered by a non- unpluggable Transformer or 120V! Any one see that in NFPA 72 or 70? There was some discussion about a guard around a transformer- to prevent unwarranted removal. My take is #1 its FPL wiring #2 FPL listed transformer or Class 3 is acceptable ( he wants a permanently wired transformer- like a bell tranny!) My reply was most Manufacturers submit the transformer(plug-in)AND Control Panel for listing by UL- I violate that by substituting a tranny of non-listed origin and open up a liability issue! Comments and Replys appreciated! Mike Sokoly MES Security Systems snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net
If the inspector is of Long Island origin then throw him a few bucks. They are all on the take out there :-)
Try to make heads or tails from this one. An insurance company required a resi customer to install a motion, and smoke in EVERY room while under construction, and then after construction they wanted a heat in EVERY room. The guy has a 6 level brownstone, including basement, and sub-basement. The entire house was gutted (No windows installed at that time, and no plywood covering the opening) but the insurance company calls for motions. Can you say false alarm magnet? How about smokes in a dusty enviroment? And what the hell are they thinking calling for replacement of the smokes with heats AFTER construction?
You can order them in a variety of sizes and the secondary output can also be ordered in a configuration to allow mounting to a convenient knock-out on the control panel. The primary end is usually terminated in your standard
1110 box. This eliminates exposure of the secondary output and the inherent risks associated with that. This device is "UL" and "CSA" Listed.
Why would he bother himself with knowledge when his good ole boys network appointment to that position only calls for him to make shit up as he goes along? Think about this, you're licensed to install fire, as well as certified to teach fire installers, but your certifications mean diddly dick once you hit the 5 boroughs unless you're willing to give Local 3 a taste. How screwy is that?
You teach Bobby P's course? If you do then we crossed paths before. Jimmy Mac, and Joe from Napco were great, but Glasser would put a cokehead to sleep with his stories :-)
Interesting argument about the listing issue, Mike. If he insists, the solution is to use a boxed, open field transformer with 110VAC leads. Have a look at Altronix' AC power supplies. If the inspector refuses to accept the listed transformer for the job, ask him to state it in writing on town stationery. Get him to sign off on the submittals with the replacement unit included and you're butt is covered, albeit at an unnecessary cost increment.
I suspect he's simply mistaken. He's probably used to commercial fire alarms and not up to par on what is done in the residential aspect of the trade.
Heh. Are you sure this guy didn't move there from East Hartford, CT? We had an AHJ there who would have made you laugh with his stupidity.
Bad move. Rules # 1a-c when dealing with inspectors -- make them believe you (a) like them; (b) respect them; and (c) are really glad they came over because you need their advice on [insert topic unrelated to present job].
"Mr.Double-sided tape" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
No one realizes what is coming on the next NFPA 72 rewrite (2006). From what I understand, everyone that installs and/or services fire alarm systems will be required to be a listed installation company by either UL or FM. This will include electrical contactors that install fire, as well. If you think this is BS, they (UL) and the fire marshalls are testing the waters in Florida right now. There are local ordinances and AHJ policies in place, already, requiring that you be a UL or FM listed company even to submit an application for a permit even though your are state licensed. The reason they can do this is because there is something about [if they know it is coming out in the code they can adopt it prior to]. They are putting themselves into and infront of any of the existing licensing laws. At that point, your license/certification will be truely worth diddly dick unless you spend mega bucks initially and annually thereafter for additional certifications. There are five counties and nine cities that are on board with this in Florida. Even though the state has adopted 72, in its entirety, these cities/counties have thrown out remote station, aux, and proprietary systems. You can only install central station service and you must be a listed contractor, even though you are state licensed. You can have all the credentials in the world and the only ones that will count is either UL or FM. One city went as far as to even exclude FM and will only except UL. One county has a policy that, every structure over 5,000 square feet must have a central station service system installed and you must be a listed company just to apply for the permit. Also, the next rewrite of NFPA, again from my understanding, contains the 730 and 731 burglar code language. That will mean, if the next version of 72 is adopted by your state, automatically so will 730 and 731. Everyone should be watching and educating your legistators, or who ever, on what is coming down the pike and to not let state law be trumped by code. After it is adopted, it will be to late for any whining and crying. They have found a way to slip in their personal agendas into a national code which is adopted without question. UL is giving seminars to the AHJs right now to educate them that is the way to go. The industry, on the other hand, is doing nothing, but what's new. I promise not to get on my soapbox about this issue but remember what I said when it comes to a city near you.
This is news to me and I'm an NFPA 72 committee member. Maybe I fell asleep on those issues. The language has been in NFPA 72 for a very long time, which allows AHJ's to require central station service. The
2007 version of NFPA 72 will retain the same allowance... "where required ...". AHJ's like central station service because it places the onus and the cost to maintain a fire protection system squarely on the property owner. If all property owner's did the right thing, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
The NFPA 72 language has morphed over the past 3 code cycles to the point where 3rd party verification may be provided by anyone approved by the AHJ. For example, a group of retired building inspectors applies to become an approved 3rd party verifier to conduct audits on fire alarm installing companies. This could be a less expensive method that using UL or FM.
NFPA 72, like all codes and standards, is published as a model, a suggesti> > Why would he bother himself with knowledge when his good ole boys
No, I don't Teach Robert P's Course- I'm his competition! I took my class from them- I konow Allan very well, as well as Jimmy and Sal and of course Mr. P! I was asked to instruct with them, did a few classes but when it came to remuneration- Robert told me I was "Just a Trainee". Sooo being Hungarian I don't get mad- I get even. Now HE calls my Boss asking if we have any extra students to send him - to which we reply , sorry - SEND US SOME OF YOURS- Too bad for him. BTW ALL OUR INSTRUCTORS teach other certified electrician traing classes- MAster Prep, Apprentice and the like: We are ALL NY STATE Education Department Permanent Teachers- he and his clan are NOT- the can only teach the one
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