Monitoring Rates

1. Greed. It's a racket. :^)

Most honest alarm companies charge a flat fee for residential service. There may be an incremental cost for daily auto-test, a feature where the panel calls the central station every day with an "I'm OK" signal, because that ties up the receiver lines more, requiring more lines and more hardware for a given number of accounts. Other than that, very few companies charge extra for additional zones.

A few companies charge an extra few dollars for fire monitoring although there's no real justification for doing so since the major portion of signals are burglary related -- not fire so there's no measurable incremental cost to the company. ADT used to (and perhaps still does) charge extra for fire.

For monitoring DIY alarm systems, consider 911Alarm.com (crude website but a number of my DIY customers use them and say they do a good job) or NextAlarm.com (slick website, lots of options, but feedback has been mixed).

Most alarm companies charge flat monthly fee not based upon how many detectors you have, but there might be tiers of service ie; base monitoring

• daily test, base monitoring + monthly test, monitoring with logged opening/closings, monitoring with supervised opening/closings + reports, option for radio backup...etc.

DIYer won't have option to pay directly to Uplink, you have to have a wholesale account with them...probably same for any other radio system provider.

1. Take out your local yellow pages
2. Call three independent dealers and request their rates for monitoring & service
3. Contact the local BBB and investigate your three choices
4. Talk to your neighbors to see who *they* use and what kind of service that get
5. Make a choice.

Very few "online" stores offer a decent solution. Most try to "nab" your attention based on "the savings" you'll enjoy with the companies (or company) they push. Most professional monitoring stations will not accept "DIY" clientelle because of the obvious risk inherent in having someone that's not been properly trained "fat fingering" their alarm. Often times the "local" company offers the best solution at a reasonable price. You shouldn't have to pay "extra" for daily tests. My customers certainly don't and our rate has been unchanged for as many years as I've been running this business. Our initial contract term is 36 months after which the contract renews on an annual basis. We haven't raised our monitoring rates for ten years (and probably never will). And that is one aspect of any contract you should acquaint yourself with (renewal and cancellation terms and the rate increases. ALWAYS read the fine print and never accept what a salesman "says".

Hmmm, so what does that same "no-DIYs-here" monitor do when a client appears who either wants to transfer from another service or has bought a house with an existing installation? Does he

1) respond with "not interested" 2) inspect the installation for conformance to his standards 3) assume that the installation is acceptable

It would seem #1 and #3 would be not in the monitor's best business interest. OTOH, if he chooses #2, why would that not work for a DIY installation? The worst that can happen is that he says "oh crap, another fat fingerer" and reverts to #1.

BTW, I'm not trying to be argumentative here (or trollish). But the post-construction installations (ones with smoke detectors) that I have seen in our neighborhood don't come anywhere near meeting current building codes (not that they are required to do so), so I am suspicious about what I would be told I "needed" from my local vendor.

Also, if I am being sold a system, I would like to be able to enhance it with standard accessories in the future. I shouldn't think this would make it a DIY installation (or am I wrong)?

TIA

Here's what we would do:

Inform the client that we "may" be interested in monitoring/servicing their account based upon our inspection of the system. That there is a $xx.xx p/hr to inspect the system and that a portion of the fee may be waived if we decide to do business with them (or vice versa).

If they agree then we inspect the system and give them a proposal to bring the system up to our standards if need be - most of the time this is no big deal.

Once in a while we the system is such crap that we walk away from it.

Once we are engaged in monitoring the system we DO NOT ALLOW ANY modification to the system either physically or programming by the client. If we should part ways...then we return the system programmatically to allow the client to f*ck it up any way they please.

Sounds about right. One thing I would add. The "standards" includes things like end-of-line supervision relays for four wire smokes. You have no idea how many installations I've see where these have not been installed (either from pure laziness or lack of knowledge - you pick). In most instances, take-overs are a nightmare because once you find one thing "wonky", invariably another will become obvious as well. Trying to explain to the client (diplomatically) that the last alarm company's installers were "idiots" is pretty difficult. Often times the client has chosen the installing company. "I'm afraid you were stupid, Mr. Customer, in choosing these idiots to install your alarm."

Well that sounds fair enough - especially the last sentence. :^)

I assume that same process would apply even to DIYs? (perhaps on the condition you have a good "feeling" about the guy's competence on the phone before-hand)

TIA

We've never provided "straight monitoring service" to any client. There is always a full service contract in place and the system must meet our installation standards. It's one of the reasons I don't believe companies like 911 or NextAlarm (monitoring agencies that will never actually *see* your system) can offer the highest level of security (or service). The relationship between an end-user and a monitoring centre should always include a professional (licensed) service agency to ensure the level of service to both the central station and the customer is the best it can be. You get what you pay for. You'll find that some online stores are willing to issue "insurance certificates" based on the fact that you've "paid" for the monitoring service they "recommend". They have NO IDEA that the system is even properly installed (you could just as easily set it up on your workbench).

Didn't think you were being either.

We would never tell you you "needed" something unless it was an end-of-line supervision relay for your monitored smoke detectors, an additional power supply (because the Nimrod installer didn't know how to calculate the current requirements) or a larger transformer/battery. If you opted *NOT* to have what we recommended installed, we would simply "walk away". We're in a position to be just as "choosey" as our customers are. :-)

When we're called in to pre-wire a home, it's pre-wired for a complete perimeter system. This gives the client the option to upgrade their system as their budget allows (and with no pressure to do so). When you properly explain the differences between the two systems, most homeowners will opt for the best. It's surprising how quickly our customers come up with the extra cash. :-)

I'm only diplomatic if I knew the last company :-)

Yes I take on DIYers accounts, but to be honest they are usually ones that I usually helped along throughout the entire design/installation process.

I don't EVER takeover accounts that have equipment that I hate to work with; I'll recommend replacement if it's justified or recommend another alarmco and say goodbye. I'm going to one this afternoon, it has a panel that's 8 yrs old, another highly reputable local alarmco has been there already and are perplexed and have walked on it. I don't like the panel that's there and we already know it's old, there's a problem on the fire circuit, it's probably locked and the home has been remodeled and partially rewired by the dreaded electrician. I already *know* this will be a be a replacement & remodel of the system.

Crash:

Oh Crash, what an excellent segue for my next query.

I have 18 2-wire homeruns covering all doors and windows plus 2 overhead garage doors. Concealed mag/reed contacts on the doors, non-concealed mag/reed contacts on the windows, floor-mounted Amseco sensors on the garage doors.

Also have 7 4-wire homeruns to various keypad-height locations around the house.

Am considering the following as a startup system: Vista-20P panel

6160RF keypad

Future upgrades possible:

- up to 10 2-wire smokes (2W-B or 528BXT?)

- 7845i-GSM

- 2x keyfobs; 5804E?

- 7x rf GBD; 5853?

- CO sensor; suggestions??

- rf motion sensors; 5890PI

- 3x rf flood sensors; suggestions??

So, is this type of equipment generally acceptable (assuming correct installation)?

Oh, and here's an off-the-wall question: I have a sauna that cycles between

85 and 100 deg C (185 to 210 deg F) when operating. Two or three times, the controlling thermostat has "stuck" and the sauna heated up to around 105C before it finally tripped. Of course, there's a backup thermal cutout on the heater, but I would be more comfortable if I had a wireless temp sensor that would trigger at 105C (220F). Is there anything available for which I could "dial in" the trip temp (and would withstand these high-temp conditions)?

TIA

There is no industry standard for arriving at pricing for monitoring that I am aware of. Some dealers wish to serve a certain type customer in a certain price range. There are companies that offer the bottom rung price points that just go after volume. Other companies prefer to work only with high end customers and have high pricing to get exclusivity. Pricing can be influenced by the features you wish to have. That bill of fare pricing applies mostly to commercial accounts for fire, supervised opening and closing, etc. If you have a leased system or have maintenance included with the monthly that is another influence on pricing. Discounts can be had for bundling other services. A company called Hawk offered discount monitoring for its cellular customers. In some cases the number of zones you have increases the monitoring price, but that is mostly with some national companies. Getting a good alarm company interested in monitoring a DIY account could be a challenge in many markets. Good luck.

A lot to put on a 20P (I hate zone doubling so I wouldn't use this panel if I were selling this system).

You would put the temp sensor outside the sauna with a probe through the wall...that kind of heat/moisture would destroy a transmitter the first time out. Winland makes a programmable temp sensor hi/lo or old mechanical kind...not sure if it goes that high temp I don't EVER takeover accounts that have equipment that I hate to work | > with; | | Oh Crash, what an excellent segue for my next query. | | I have 18 2-wire homeruns covering all doors and windows plus 2 overhead | garage doors. Concealed mag/reed contacts on the doors, non-concealed | mag/reed contacts on the windows, floor-mounted Amseco sensors on the garage | doors. | | Also have 7 4-wire homeruns to various keypad-height locations around the | house. | | Am considering the following as a startup system: | Vista-20P panel | 6160RF keypad | | Future upgrades possible: | - up to 10 2-wire smokes (2W-B or 528BXT?) | - 7845i-GSM | - 2x keyfobs; 5804E? | - 7x rf GBD; 5853? | - CO sensor; suggestions?? | - rf motion sensors; 5890PI | - 3x rf flood sensors; suggestions?? | | So, is this type of equipment generally acceptable (assuming correct | installation)? | | Oh, and here's an off-the-wall question: I have a sauna that cycles between | 85 and 100 deg C (185 to 210 deg F) when operating. Two or three times, the | controlling thermostat has "stuck" and the sauna heated up to around 105C | before it finally tripped. Of course, there's a backup thermal cutout on | the heater, but I would be more comfortable if I had a wireless temp sensor | that would trigger at 105C (220F). Is there anything available for which I | could "dial in" the trip temp (and would withstand these high-temp | conditions)? | | TIA | | -- | ...The Bit Eimer NAR 84054 L2 | "My goal in life is to be the kind of person my cat thinks he is" | [remove keinewurst and reverse letters in domain to email me] | -------------------------------------------------------------- | |

They have expanders ya know.

Yes, I was planning to use the wired expander modules, not doubling.

Are there "issues" with the 20P?

Yes, it is made by Ademco (now Honeywell). That is why there is the: Vista 20 Vista 20HW Vista 20HWSE Vista 20P Vista 20PS Vista 20PSIA Vista 20SE Instead of just the Vista 20. For the Vista 20P there is: Vista 20P-1 Vista 20P-2 Vista 20P-3 Vista 20P-5(IP)

It is a great panel, I use them almost exclusively.

Your list of devices:

6160RF keypad Future upgrades possible:

- up to 10 2-wire smokes (2W-B or 528BXT?)

- 7845i-GSM

- 2x keyfobs; 5804E?

- 7x rf GBD; 5853?

- CO sensor; suggestions??

- rf motion sensors; 5890PI

- 3x rf flood sensors; suggestions??

Is going to be too much for the built-in power supply to handle, so you'll need to get an auxiliary p/s to handle all those devices (anytime you add cell backup to a v-20p you need aux-power).

For the flood sensors I'd use wired Winland Waterbugs if you can get a wire there*. 528B series are great smokes. 5804 are versatile fobs. 5853 audio's work well. 5890PI PIR's offer good catch and false alarm immunity but do not use them in areas where pets are present, despite the PI designation.

*For the sauna temp monitoring AND (3)flood sensors you can use one unit, the EnviroAlert® Four Zone Digital Environmental Monitoring Alarm EA40012 from Winland. Purchase the (3) waterbug sensors PN(M-001-0006) and the SS High Temp Thermistor Probe (32 to 299° F) PN(M-001-0081). You can locate the EnviroAlert anywhere and run your sensor wires to it, and have a 12v power source there too. Then if need be use wireless 5802 x-mitters to monitor on the V-20p.

Make that the waterproof one:

M-001-0087 Waterproof High Temp Thermistor Probe (32 to 299° F)

Which reminds me...not too long ago you could buy 22/6, and even 22/8,

22/10, and 22/12 off the shelf. Now the counter geeks give me a blank stare when I ask for it. They don't carry it any more. They just say, "Oh, just pull 2 22/4's." Well, duh. I want the multi cables though. I like them for keypads and motions. WTF? js