Sovereign...like Quebec eh?
| > Frankie you've been slamming nationals for years. Denial isn't a river | > in Egypt. | | You're confusing me with someone else. I've been a big supporter of the | local ADT branch for years. | | | | >>I believe I said that (only in not so many words).< | >
| > Next time use more words then. Dumb fckin Canadians always confusing | > people. | | It's "Dumb fckin Amuricans" that can't read no-how... Don't spell things | right... and still believe theres justification in invading a sovereign | nation... | | | | >
| > Properly training the end user will reduce false alarms. | | Heh... in your dreams... | | > Quality | > equipment and fire rated wiring will also help. | | "Check" (on the quality equipment). How will "fire rated wiring" help?? | | > While some nationals | > are absolute shitbags there are some who demand much higher standards | > than any local I've ever seen. | | You've obviously never heard of a procedures manual... | | | > If it came down to a choice between Joe Blow and Protect America I | > would go with Joe Blow but if you're comparing Joe Blow to say Westec | > then Westec is where my money is at. | | Really?? You were just slamming "Joe Blow". There used to be a "Westec" in | Edmonton, but they sold out to the Borg. | | | >
| >
| >> "Well my friend has a Joe Blow alarm system, and they never had | >> trouble" | >
| >
| >
| >>Most people would interpret a statement like that to mean: | >
| > - They're always "there" when you need them, | > - Their equipment is top notch, | > - They've never had a break-in (or the authorities responded to an | > attempt | > at one)< | >
| > Frankie customers don't have a real clue as to the quality of their | > service, and customers hate admitting they made a bad choice. | | Aux contraire, mon ami... Customers know ze qualitez of their ser-rveese | ver-r-ry well... (at least ours do). | | | >
| >
| >
| >> Do we know if Joe Blow's system is functioning properly? | >
| >
| >
| >>Do we know "the nationals" is??< | >
| > Not with all of them. I've seen jumped zones on ADT panels just as many | > times as I've seen jumped zones on the local company's panels. | | But you're "defending" a "national installation" over Joe Blows. Make up | your freekin' mind, ya damn Yank. "We done found no weapons of mass | destruction, but we done proved our weapons of mass destruction shure do | work!" | | | >
| >
| >> Does Joe Blow | >> really tell his client's to test their system weekly? | >
| >
| >>Checked your keypads lately?? It says "test system weekly" on most of | >>them.< | >
| > Know of many customers who actually do it? | | That's a personal choice. Some can't be bothered... others take their | security far more seriously. | | > How many customers know to | > look in the panel for jumped zones? | | Ummmm.... The ones that take their security far more seriously?? | | | > Come on down here and see what the "locals" offer. Windows & doors all | > on the same zone because they're too cheap to buy an expander. | | At least they're protected. It may be a bit of an inconvenience trying to | find the open window when you're in a hurry to leave, but having each device | annunciate individually on your keypad is not a requirement. | | | >
| >
| >> Does Joe Blow | >> jump zones rather than repairing faulty devices? | >
| >
| >>Do the "nationals"?? Crummy installers and ditzy service techs are also | > employed by "nationals", you know. I've met my fair share, thank you. | > < | >
| > I've met them from all walks of life, but with a national there is | > backup. | | Ummmm... would that be from the branch office?? Could it be that the | branch office may consist of one or two service techs (like Joe Blow's | Company)?? | | > Nationals tend to have more installers in their local offices | > than Joe Blow. | | Heh... right... | | > If Joe Blow is a 1 man show like your pal in Sarasota | > then what recourse does the end user have? | | There ya go again... comparing Bass Home with a national (or any alarm | company). He doesn't do installs. He doesn't do service (He does remove | Brinks panels though). Sheesh!!! | | | >
| >
| >> It only takes one | >> incident to destroy a national's reputation but Joe Blow skates. | >
| >
| >>Wrong. Both the "national" and "Joe Blow" (using your example of "we've | > never had any trouble") would stand behind the equipment they sell and | > "make | > it right" with the customer on any "one incident".< | >
| > I've seen more locals than nationals walk away from trouble systems, | > leaving the customer high & dry. | | I haven't seen a lot of examples of that. Vancouver must be "different". | | > Those "low down/free systems" have done more to bolster our industry | > than any other form of marketing. | > Crunch the numbers and see the amount of systems installed since the | > inception of these low down systems. | | Which was the point of my point... Dummy!!! | | | >
| >
| >> Look at Bass. | >
| >
| >>You comparing Bass Home with a "national" now?? He's a parts pusher who | > doesn't provide service, or installation and still claims the CS he's | > using | > is "UL Listed".< | >
| > No ya numbnut I was comparing Bass with a local dealer. How many of his | > victims even know they were duped by him? I saw the clowns installs, | > and he made the crappiest installer look like a pro. | | No matter how ya slice it, Bass isn't a "Dealer" of any kind (except when | he's playin' Poker). | | | >
| >
| >> Think of the people he has | >> suckered over the years. | >
| >
| >>Twelve at last count at the BBB (and rising).< | >
| > Not his online racket. I'm talking about his CT installs. | | Don't know anything about how he installed. And I don't accept third party | comments about another person. I've seen Bass in action in this group and | wouldn't give the guy the time of day let alone allow him in my house to | install a system. That opinion is based entirely on his Newsgroup persona | and nothing else. | | | >
| >
| >> No problems with some of his installs because | >> he jumped zones. | >
| >
| >>I'll take your word for it. I've never seen one of his installs and | > probably never will.< | >
| > You'd die laughing if you did. | | I'm already laughing... | | | >
| >
| >> You don't think Bass was ever referred to someone | >> because the existing sucker never had a problem? | >
| >
| >>I'm sure he was. I understand he was "big" with Jewish Community.< | >
| > Like a bacon sandwich in Temple Beth El. | | Heh!! | | | >
| >
| >> Bass isn't all by | >> himself in the shoddy business society. | >
| >
| >>Like I said, I can't comment on Bass providing "shoddy service". I've | >>never | > seen one of his installs. I *have* seen the competitions though.< | >
| > I'm not sure how many installs you have seen but from my experience the | > local dealers here need some sort of policing. | > Guys like Jack Stevens are a dying breed (at their age they're on | > borrowed time too). Locals try to compete with nationals and most I've | > seen can't do it without taking shortcuts. | | None of the nationals I deal with here and very few of the locals take | "shortcuts". Most customers here are pretty savvy when it comes to alarm | systems. | | | >
| >
| >> The difference is Bass was | >> busted time and time again in this forum, but I'd bet money to this day | >> there are people who still think their system from the local guy (bass) | >> still works fine. Wait until they find out that heat detector isn't | >> connected. | >
| >
| >>"Busting his balls" in the forum isn't the same as getting nailed for | > "shoddy workmanship" or "unlicensed activity" in your local area. | > There's | > been a couple of instances where both has happened to one of the "big | > three" | > here in Vancouver (ISTR the CEO of Tyco got "nailed" recently). < | >
| > You're the big Google guru so post the old news articles on ADT | > installers arrested for breaking into homes, but when you do it make | > sure to add installers for local companies. | > That's what's really scary. | | Funny how the "nationals" always make the news with stuff like that... | | | >
| >
| >> See if the Central station is U.L. Listed, and I.Q. Certified. Make | >> sure the installing company is also licensed & I.Q Certified. | >> As Jack stated 90 some odd percent of all signals are false alarms. The | >> I.Q. Certification Board's #1 goal is the reduction of false alarms. | >
| >
| >
| >>Right. So what method does "the Board" recommend you use to reduce false | > alarms caused by a klutzy end-user?? Shoot the f**ker?? Cut off his | > hands??< | >
| > Training training training training and more training. | | Uh-huh... sure... | | | >
| >
| >> Joe Blow Alarm Company can always offer a better deal than the next guy | >> because Joe Blow Alarm Company doesn't use quality equipment, | >
| >
| >>Excuse me?? We onliest use the bestust relays and high quality chrome | > plated pull chains.< | >
| > Loxxons for everyone! | | I like mine with a bagel. | | | >
| >
| >> fire-rated wire, | >
| >
| >>Is that anything like asbestos covered steel supports that had a "two | >>hour" | > fire rating??< | >
| > It's like a left-handed toothbrush. | | Ahhh... I get the "pitcher". | | | >
| >
| >> and doesn't answer to anyone. | >
| >
| >>I always answer my phone... when I feel like it.< | >
| > Who calls you anyway? I wouldn't. You spell like a retard so you must | > be dribbling on the phone too :-) | | Pardon me while I wipe the drool from my keyboard. | | | >
| >
| >> Joe Blow can use that | >> $2.00 per month monitoring station that ass nuggets like Bass use. | >
| >
| >>We use third party monitoring as well... They're ULC listed, and their | > staff are all SIA trained.< | >
| >
| > Would you say that's the exception and not the rule? | | Nope. The industry here is pretty tightly regulated. | | | >
| >
| >> Joe | >> Blow won't offer a client a system relocation. | >
| >
| >>I would in a heartbeat!! "You wanna move this equipment to where, Mr. | > Customer?? That'll cost ya about $300.00 plus airfare, hotel, and | > entertainment!" < | >
| > So in other words NO? | | Did I say that?? | | | >
| >
| >> All Joe Blow can do is | >> tell you why someone else is no good. | >
| >
| >>Well thank you, Joe... errmmmm... I mean Tom...< | >
| >
| > Too much eggnog? | | Puh-leeze!!! It's "Courvoisier". My tastes are much more discriminating. | | | >
| >> Fact is, if Joe Blow Alarm | >> Company was that damn good then Joe Blow Alarm Company would be bigger | >> than they are, and have awards to show just how much better they are. | >
| >
| >>Not if the owner (in this case Joe Blow) decided he wanted to concentrate | >>on | > providing good service and value for money (like Bob Campbell). In | > Bob's | > case, the business "grows" by referral and he can "pick and choose" who | > he | > wants to do business with. I'm sure that his son is going to have to | > make a | > decision sooner or later to hire addtional support staff and service | > techs. | > Besides, when "Joe Blow Alarm Company" gets to a certain size, they | > usually | > wind up selling out to a "national" for a "sweet-heart deal"... :-)) < | >
| > Have you seen any of his installs? He might be the greatest installer | > alive but have you seen any of his installs? | > It's just hearsay until you actually do. | | Nope. I haven't. But I'm a pretty good judge of character. I figure Jim, | Mark, Jim R., RHC, Jack, Jackcsg, Bob L., Bob W., Norm and a few others here | are decent folks. It's actually easier to list the guy "on the dark side" | than all the good people here... :-)) | | | >
| >> Yap yap yap until the cows come home but the proof is in the pudding. | >
| >
| >
| >>When the cows come home you have to milk them first before you can make | > pudding.< | >
| > Milk a bull | | A "bull" ain't a cow, but a cow can be a "bull", right?? :-)) | | | >
| >
| >> Stop advising people to eliminate choices with blanket statements. | >
| >
| >
| >>I don't think I did...< | >
| > You have done it before. You post so damn much you can't keep track of | > your own blabbering. | | Where?? I done Googled everythin', boss and can't find it nowhere. | | | >
| >
| >> Look at the post from RHC in this thread and see if you can spot a | >> problem with "local service". | >
| >
| >>Yep. That problem's covered though (in RHC's case). When Bass goes on | > vacation the whole store goes to s**t. < | >
| > And how many Bassholes are there as opposed to RHCs? | | Heh... I ain't gonna touch that!! I promised I wouldn't flame Robert... | | | >
| >
| >> RHC went on vacation (which is great.... more power to him) but who was | >> left minding the shop? | >
| >
| >>Ummmm... His son??< | >
| > How qualified is his son? (mind you RHC is the example of a small | > dealer Frankie. We're not discussing his son per say but companies | > constructed the same way). What if his son isn't qualified? When will a | > Father ever admit his son is incapable? RHC isn't the only father/son | > company out there. | | Hey!!! Lay off RHC. He's Canadian, dammit!!! | | | >
| >
| >> Someone who in his own words doesn't fully understand the industry. | >
| >
| >>Heh... He's also stated that he does most of the installs. I figure he | > probably has good trouble-shooting skills as well. Besides, there's | > always | > the "cell phone"...< | >
| >
| > He's "stated" but where is the proof? It's still hearsay Frankie. | | Nope. When someone states something about their own business or themselves | , that's not hearsay... You should look up the meaning of the word. | | | >
| >
| >> What happened to any potential service issues during that time? Who | >> took care of the customers? Was it someone who was fully aware of the | >> industry, and someone who knows how to handle any service issue? | >> How long should a customer wait until their system is functioning at | >> 100%. | >
| >
| >>About two hours (I figure)...< | >
| > You GUESS | | What do you think "I figure" means?? | | | >
| >
| >> This isn't a pot shot at anyone Frank, but this isn't the Goodwill | >> Society either so if offense is taken so be it. | >
| >
| >>No offense taken... and none given...< | >
| > I must be losing my touch :-) | >
| > | >
| >
| >
| >> It's sad how "advise" (Canadian version) is spewed out about who is | >> good and who isn't when the bottom line is you don't really have a | >> f****ng clue if you're right or not. | >
| >
| >>Awww... give me a break... Nothing I've said hasn't been said already. | > Check out:< | >
| > You just did it in your reply. | >
| | | | >
| >> Having a few beers with someone, | >> or trading emails doesn't make them a reputable dealer, nor does | >> someone listed on your website have a reputation that you know for fact | >> is good. All you do is spout off hearsay, and in this business that's | >> just irresponsible. | >
| >
| >>Heh... I've never listed anyone on my website by "reputation". And I've | > never "spouted off" hearsay. < | >
| > You just did. Now what is the criteria to be listed on your website? | | You really want to know?? Or are you just "fishing"?? | | | > Tell me what you do to protect end users from shoddy installers? | | I onliest hire the bestust beer drinkers and use the bestust qualities | relays and pull chains. | | | > Do you investigate these companies, and if so, how? | | Nope. Not my place. If they're licensed (in their State/Province) then | they get listed. The BBB does a pretty good job of keeping tabs on how they | perform. The latest iteration of my "Dealers" page contains a link to the | local BBB and State Alarm Association. | | | >
| >
| >> I've been a local dealer, and I've been a dealer for nationals. Were my | >> installers any better when we didn't have the national shingle? | >
| >
| >>Nope. I think I've already alluded to that.< | >
| > OK | >
| >
| >> (BTW - F*ck you Bass in advance for your future comments. I could out | >> install your slob ass with a Yankee drill, a dull bit, and both arms in | >> a sling). | >
| >
| >
| >>You forgot to mention "both legs in a cast".< | >
| > And under sedation | | Prozac??? | | | >
| >
| >> I've cracked jokes about my installation abilities over the years but I | >> can guarantee you you'd be hard pressed to find someone you'd rather | >> have install or service your system than me or any of my techs. Mark | >> Leuck and I crack jokes about the millions of phone calls I've made to | >> him with questions but what we never talk about is the reason being | >> that I service DSC, Moose, AT&T, ITI, Ademco, Napco, DS, Radionics, | >> MyAlarm, and on and on and on. All of my training has been Baptism by | >> Fire. I don't sit back and read a manual so I can post answers in a | >> newsgroup. I get a call today for a panel I never worked with and by | >> tomorrow I have it repaired. And as Mark can also attest to I am not | >> alone in this area. | >
| >
| >
| >>I seriously doubt you'd be able to repair/program a panel without first | > reading it's manual. I don't think Mark would tolerate many phone | > calls | > from Dealers that require answering a question that's already covered | > *in | > the freakin' manual*. Not reading the manual is pure laziness. | > Posting | > stupid questions in this Newsgroup when you've got the manual in front | > of | > you is equally lazy. < | >
| >
| > Frankie in most situations when it's your first time with the panel | > there is no time to read the manual so you wire up the different panels | > properly and have someone walk you through programming, and the next | > time you run into that system you should have it down in spades. | > Mind you I'm talking about panels that aren't amongst the most popular | > choices, and panels that are no longer in production. | > Mark dammit explain it in English to the Canuck. | | It doesn't take long for me to read a manual. Understanding the principles | of programming a panel doesn't take long either. I'd never even try to | program a Radionics panel (or one of Jackcsg's "Dippy" ones)... And I don't | waste time on the phone to someone in Texas to try and get him to talk me | through programming when I know some klutzy installer that leaves | "no-wires-showing" needs him more. :-)) | | | >
| >
| >> Do you think all locals immediately become inept once a national hands | >> them a shingle? | >
| >
| >
| >>Yep!!! :-)) < | >
| > You really do want a fckin wedgie don't you? | | I prefer "Noogies"... | | | >
| >
| >> Rojas services for nationals and was also a dealer. Is he on the | >> "dark-side" of installers now? Bob Skinner was an ADT dealer. How | >> shoddy is his work? How about Bossman? He's a Monitronics dealer. Does | >> his work suck? Are his clients screwed? | >
| >
| >
| >>Hey!!! We do work for "nationals" too!!! I guess that means Robert's | >>been | > right all along... I know nothing about alarms... :-))< | >
| > Bass thinks Augustus Pope was the ruler of Vatican City. | | Wasn't he?? | | | >
| >
| >> How solid is your advice now Frank? How solid is your "atta boy Frank" | >> now RHC? | >
| >
| >
| >>'Bout as "solid" as this post (which looks more like an example from RLB's | > poison keyboard more and more)...< | >
| > It was the burgers. | | :-)) | | | >
| >
| >> Stop bullshitting people already with your nickel and dime scare | >> tactics about nationals, and start worrying about your own credibility | >> because with the advice you offer you're both in desperate need of | >> some. | >
| >
| > | >
| >
| >> Don't like what I am saying? Remind me tomorrow to pretend I give a | >> s*it. | >
| >
| >
| >>Write me when you start making sense and have actually *read* what I | >>posted, | > OK?? Till then... "Below me"... :-)) < | >
| > "Below me"? Going UFO hunting now too? | | Nope. Spooks. I done rewired my volt-meter to detect 'em. | |