How much effort should I put to hard-wire?

You could possibly drill down through the door step into the basement and put recessed switches in. Be sure to use a sufficient angle inward to come out the side of the floor joist or beam that will be directly beneath the door, since the bottoms of the joists will likely be resting on concrete, and you'll need to be sure to countersink the sensor a bit so you can seal up the hole with caulking afterward. Mounting the magnet will probably require taking the doors off to drill into their bottoms.

If you go this way, you'll probably want to use wide-gap switches as well, as you'll have to put them in the step fairly deep to get the angle you need and leave room for a solid dab of caulking.

Depends on how much work you want to do. These days RF is so reliable it's usually a wash equip cost vs time spent. If you don't wanna see the transmitters on doors/windows you can always cut them in the wall with old work boxes and blank covers installed at outlet height too.

Replacement batteries can be quite expensive. So if you are planning on living there a long time, hardwire now would save you money in the long run.

So far as doing it yourself, running concealed wires in an already built home is an art which can take quite a bit of experience to learn. Also knowing what is inside the walls, not drilling into an electric or gas line, etc.

If you are not experienced at this, I would suggest having an experienced alarm installer or electrician do it for you.

But have it done for cash, no contracts, etc. Probably best to find someone to do it on the side and not deal with an alarm company. Or a small locally owned alarm company might do this without any contracts which obligate you to monitoring, etc.

Check this place out for monitoring...

Why sure Bill, That's what we really want to see on a Newsgroup made up of installers.

Someone promoting getting work done by someone who's cheating on their employer.

Yep, Ya know ......... you could just tell him to hail down the next car he sees with a ladder sticking out of it's trunk. He's sure to get a good job done ......... and real cheap too!

experienced

Until the guy stubs his toe, because he was wearing flip flops and sues the homeowner on a workers comp claim. Go ahead and pay the guy **cash** and then file a 1099 on his ass for income tax purposes. Maybe they'll learn not to be ho's when they have to answer why they forgot to claim that income on their IRS form. Bill started his post out OK and then went quickly to hell in a hand basket. Some of the advice that comes out of here is always good for kick and giggles.

>

Hi Eric,

If there is access from the basement below most of the time door alarm sensors are easy to wire even on an older home. French doors usually have one door that must be open before the other will move. Some older models allow either door to operate independently of the other. If yours are of the former type you only need to put sensors (called "contacts") on the door that moves first.

The simplest way to protect French doors is with a roller/plunger type sensor installed in the frame on the hinge side. I've tried numerous brands and found that most tend to jam shut after a few years. The one exception, IME, is a model from Sentrol (now part of GE Security) called a 3005. When installed properly about the only thing that can present a problem for these is paint. Just don't paint them. This is how I've done it a few thousand times.

Using a 3/4" speed bore, carefully drill a hole in the hinge side of the door frame, 2" above the threshold and parallel to the floor. Make the hole about 2" deep. STOP.

Swap the drill bit for a 1/2" diameter, 16" long bit (often called a "feeler bit"). Place the tip of the small bit inside the large hole. Raise the drill motor so that the bit is about

60º off the floor. Swing the motor outside the door about 3" so that the small hole will appear in the basement. By drilling at this compound angle you won't wind up going through a 10-12" joist.

Mark the cable with a fine point, Sharpie laundry marker and shove a few feet of it into the hole. I like to use 22-gauge,

4-conductor (22/4) solid cable for alarm sensors. The jacket is just a little smaller than that 1/4" hole you just drilled and the solid core stuff is easy to push through to the cellar below. Have your SO pull enough cable out in the basement to make neat turns over to where you will hang the control panel cabinet, leaving a couple of feet extra at each end. Bend the extra pair of wires out of the way but don't cut them off. They'll come in handy if you accidentally cut or short another wire with a staple.

Solder and tape or heat shrink the connections at the sensor end, place a tiny dab of silicone sealant (RTV or bathtub caulk is OK) on the flange of the sensor and shove it into the hole. There are screw holes to mount the sensor but I prefer a dab of RTV.

Leave a 12-18" "service loop" of cable in the cellar below in case you ever need to change the sensor.

Most US homes built in the 1920's are of "box sill" construction. That means the wall is open from the bottom of each first floor window to the top of the foundation. Joists rest directly on the foundation or, in some cases, on top of a double layer of boards called a sill plate which is laid flat atop the foundation. At the ends of the joists a board is nailed in place to close the outside. Short, horizontal boards called fire stops are placed between the joists in the basement.

Very few houses from the 1920's have adequate insulation. Some have had it blown in later. Some have nothing at all. No matter which you have it's not hard to fish cables through the outside walls.

Keypads, motion detectors and such usually use the same

4-conductor wire mentioned above. Make a small hole in the wall where the device will be installed and shove a little cable inside. If you meet no resistance at all it's probably uninsulated. Shove enough cable in to reach the floor plus an extra couple of feet.

In the basement, use a 3/4" speed bore (sometimes called a "paddle bit" to drill a hole in the fire stop below the detector or keypad location. Make the hole at about a 45º angle so it's easy to feed an electrician's snake into the wall. I like to mark the snake a foot or two longer than the height of the cable.

Push the snake up until the mark reaches the hole and slowly pull it back, making a couple of turns with the handle as you go to snag the cable. Once you have the cable the rest is easy.

Note: Some older US homes have diagonal hurricane braces installed between the last two studs next to each corner. In particular if the house is in New England and it was built in the late 20's to early 30's avoid corner locations.

Also, some homes have horizontal fire stops midway up the walls. This was not too common in the 1920's though it is fairly common on more recent construction.

With a little patience and a modicum of tool skills, most people can install a hard-wired security system in a weekend or two. The advantages of hard-wired are threefold. It's not likely to become obsolete in your lifetime. It requires less maintenance. There aren't a lot of boxes on the walls (makes for a higher WAF rating).

Installing four or five door sensors in a 1920 era home should only take a few hours. The keypad and siren(s) shouldn't be a major problem if you avoid putting them right next to a corner. There are flush-mount, interior sirens that can be installed at heater vent height, a few inches above the baseboard. They look like air return grills only smaller.

If you want to place a keypad on the second floor, go to the attic and look for the DWV stack. That's a black pipe sticking up through the roof to vent the "poop pipe". In the 1920's no one had large hole saws since they didn't yet exist. The DWV stack was fed through a square hole cut in the top and bottom of each level, leaving a handy void (no pun intended) where you can run cables for an attic or outside siren, second floor keypad, smoke detectors, etc.

Feeding down to a bedroom keypad from the attic is easy. Look for a flat 2x4 board. That's the top of the wall. Wires emerging from that board near the bedroom door are from the light switch. Drill a 3/4" hole an inch or two to one side from the

110 VAC stuff with your paddle bit and drop the wire in the hole.

If you need more help planning or picking out a system, contact me if you like. I sell this stuff to DIYers in an online store in case you're interested.

I used to dread installing systems in pre-WW2 homes here in the midwest, because the lumber shortages during WW1 and WW2 caused some really interesting situations vis-a-vis concrete, block, stone, slabs, etc., not to mention the challenges and dangers of working in tight places around knob-and-tube wiring, older plumbing, etc.

Depending on how much experience you have wiring an older home, wireless would seem to be a straightforward approach with the least amount of hassle invloved. At the very least, go with a hybrid system, so that you can hardwire what is easily accessible, and use wireless for the difficult stuff. Good luck.

How did lumber shortages during World War II affect pre-WWII homes? I wasn't aware that there was a lumber shortage during either war. My folks have spoken of shortages of fuel, rubber and lots of other petro-stuff but not about lumber. Two of my great uncles built a thriving lumber business in Dover, NJ during the first world war. They also built lots of houses, apartments and commercial structures, many of which are still standing today. All were wood frame buildings.

You might be right. There may have been a lumber shortage, but from what I've seen (mainly in southern New England) homes were built pretty much the same during the 1920's as they had been in the 1910's and continued so until the mid-40's.

As to knob and tube wiring, most of it has been replaced decades ago. There's still some around but it can easily be avoided. Just keep low voltage wires clear of it the same as you would do with modern Romex cable. Much had been said on that subject in earlier threads.

Plumbing in older homes presents no more of a problem to low voltage work than it does in newer places. In fact, the oversized holes used to run old-fashioned plumbing systems sometimes come in handy when running new cable.

Wireless is always easier to install. The problems with wireless have already been enumerated in this thread.

On that we agree. However, since the vast majority of new systems are hybrid capable, the DIYer can select a system based on it's other capabilities. Ademco, ITI, Napco and several other manufacturers all make decent systems capable of using wireless and wired sensors as needed.

So... without finding out where he's living, you're suggesting he install a plunger type switch in the door frame of an eighty year old house... Sure, Robert... Sure...

Better yet, STOP before you even begin.

You use awefully big "feeler bits" in Bahia...

Or the wiring for the light switch next to the door??

Robert, you are a know-it-all. A jackoff. A boor. A Cliff Clavin. You have an answer for everything, and want to argue every point. I'm not going to bother entering a point/counterpoint with you tonight, especially about the availability/unavailability of cheap lumber during the World Wars and Depression Era, but I feel that it's been way too long since I called you what you are- a Class A Prick..

Sorry to have offended you by disagreeing with you. It's unfortunate that you are unable to accept disagreement without resorting to such childish outbursts.

I don't mind if you can't come up with a reasonable counterpoint other than the above, but perhaps you can at least try to explain how shortages in WWII (1939 to 1945) and the great depression (which started in 1929) affected construction in 1920.

Without benefit of your vast knowledge of history, we can only assume that the lumber market anticipated the troubles to come and dried up years in advance. Boggles the mind, eh?

To the point, if you want to try to dissuade people from DIY, I can understand your motive. You make a living installing alarms. No problem. I advocate DIY and I make a living catering to DIYers via my online alarm system store. It's natural that I want to explain how to do this sort of thing, just as it is natural that you want to make people believe that doing so is dangerous / impossible / against the law / whatever.

I would suggest though that you stick to facts. Try not to make up stories or at least try to use ones that aren't so silly. It doesn't make you sound knowledgeable when you try to associate lumber shortages in WWII with construction issues in homes that were built a generation *before* WWII. It just sounds like you're trying *very* hard to prove an unprovable argument, to wit, that there's some sort of "art" to installing alarms. There isn't.

This isn't rocket science. It's not a profession like medicine or engineering. It's a blue collar trade requiring little or no education. Your tirade above only serves to prove the point.

Your comments, Mr. BAss, to Eric show why you don't have an Alarm license in Florida. You don't have a clue; Do you Mr. BAss?

Norm Mugford

I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?

I never stated that he shouldn't install it himself, you f****ng moron. He is obviously GOING to install it himself, or he wouldn't be asking- eh, Einstein? Just trying to help the fellow out, in case he doesn't have much experience, and point him to some wireless capable equipment. He's going to end up using it with a home built way back then- ask him when he's done what difficulties he encountered, troll.

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Skilled labor and lumber needed to build homes were in short supply in post-World War I years. But Sears, Roebuck and Company was ready and waiting with kits, available by catalog and containing everything needed to build a house.

The housing shortage in 1918 was so severe that analysts estimated that 1 to

2 million homes were needed immediately. Soldiers returning from WWI, as well as a steady stream of immigrants through Ellis Island fueled the demand for modestly priced houses. Sears had been courting business from this wave of foreigners for more than a decade. Its 1905 general merchandise catalog offered: "Write your order in any language. We have translators to read and write in all languages."

The company's Modern Homes were hot sellers in the 1920s. Pre-cut lumber in the house kits made skilled carpentry unnecessary and solved the problem of lumber shortages. The Sears Modern Homes catalogs of the early 1920s were the largest the company published. They offered 90 different house designs, as well as plans for garages, outhouses and chicken coops.

The Sears catalog homes truly were "Modern Homes," with centralized heating systems, electric lights and indoor plumbing. The salutary effects of living in a modern home were extolled throughout the pages on the 1920s catalogs.

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In 1917, Robert W. Wier and the Lutcher and Moore heirs combined resources to construct the last large mill at the town of Wiergate, with timberlands covering about 86,000 acres in Newton, Jasper, and Sabine counties. The Wiergate Lumber Company logged what was perhaps the last great Texas stand of longleaf pine.

By 1920, many of the lands acquired by the big mills had been cut out, leaving tangled thickets of second growth hardwoods, mixed with a few pine seedlings. Foresters and conservationists complained that the practice of free-range husbandry eliminated pine regeneration and promoted the growth of hardwood, thereby eliminating the potential for sustained yield logging. Some companies moved to the West Coast, where large tracts of lands and forest were available to sustain the cut-and-run method of logging. Others went bankrupt, letting their lands fall into receivership.

Because Texas had retained its public lands when it became a state in 1845, the federal government lacked national parks and forests in the state. In May 1933, the Texas legislature passed a bill, supported by both lumbermen and conservation groups that authorized the U.S. Forest Service to appraise and purchase lands. The federal government purchased more than 90% of the lands that were to comprise the National Forests in Texas from 11 lumber companies.

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There were 27,000 recorded forest fires in 1919, burning a total of 8¼ million acres. During the preceding year, 25,000 fires burned over 10½ million acres of forest land. An addi­tional large acreage was burned each year, of which no record could be obtained.

According to estimates published in American Forestry, Sept. 1920: "The bulk of the original supplies of yellow pine in the South will be gone in ten years, and within seven years 3,000 manufacturing plants will go out of business."

The following is from an article by Franklin H. Smith, Statis­tician in Forest Products:

Going back to the middle of the last century, we can dis­tinctly trace the history of the lumber of the country at ten year intervals by showing the relative importance of the several pro­ducing regions.

Why do you have to be so disagreeable, Mr. bAss? You have your opinion Stanley has his which you both have stated. End of story. There is no reason to challenge his opinion and attempt to brow beat him, it is his opinion and I doubt you or anyone can change it in one minute on the internet. So get a clue, Just as in real life nobody around here wants to talk to you or debate your silly sales pitches.

See, I told you those old homes were easy to DIY. Anyone with a bit of patience, a modicum of tool skills and a Sears Catalog could do it. Don't you just love reading about successful DIY ventures?

Noted: You only said there were all manner of dangers in doing so due to lumber shortages a couple of decades after his home was built. I'm still trying to figure out how that worked but not to worry. Your vitriolic response removed any doubt about your motives.

Not so. I don't even know you. :^)

Which particular equipment was that?

Older homes can be more time consuming but for the most part they're not significantly more difficult to wire than modern homes. I've installed completely wireless systems in many old homes over the years, including the home of *Jacob Shallus' brother where the US Constitution was briefly hidden more than

200 years ago. On that job I had to first remove the surface wiring installed by Sonitrash.

Once you've done a few of these jobs you get the hang of it. I explained how to wire the detectors the gentleman mentioned. Maybe you should print the post. That will take less effort and prove far more useful than posting more gutter talk.

Nice sig line.

*Jacob Shallus penned the Constitution though he was not one of the signers. As an avid history buff, you probably already knew that, right?