Connecting two DMP alarms together? Outputs to Zones? Possible?

dunno...gray market probably.

this is how products...any product..can get a bad rap...someone who doesn't know the system/programming etc....just an overall comment.

what he is trying to do I quite often without a secondary panel...just 4 conductors to the guest house and wire everything to the keypad location.

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| > || > there are other possibilities as well. | > || >

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4 | > || > || whenever a Burglary condition is triggered. | > || > || | > || > || I am trying to tie those outputs into the XR200 as zones 7 and
  1. | > || > || | > || > || I'm confused about how outputs work. From the manual: | > || > || | > || > || "The four annunicator outputs can be programmed to indicate the | > || > || activity ofthe panel's zones or conditions occurring on the | > system. | > || > || Annunciator outputs do not provide a voltage but instead | > || > || switch-to-ground voltage from another source." | > || > || | > || > || For my system to work correctly, it is almost like I need the | > outputs | > || > || to act like door contacts... Closed when not in alarm, and open | > when | > | in | > || > || alarm. | > || > || | > || > || I've checked for continuity between the panel ground and the alarm | > || > || output, but it is always open. Thus when I try to arm the XR200, | > I'm | > || > || getting faults on zones 7 and 8. | > || > || | > || > || Has anyone ever tried to do something like this? | > || > || | > || > || Thanks, | > || > || -- Jason Millard | > || > || | > || > | | > || > | | > || > | | > || >

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Reply to
Crash Gordon
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In that case they should have installed pulling boxes along the run. It's a royal pain dealing with other people's mistakes. :(

Reply to
Robert L Bass

He could get it from a dealer... same as my DIY clients who buy Ademco, Caddx, Napco, etc.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

yep...no pull j boxes.

everyday i deal with other peoples crappy installs or mistakes...pisses me off.

| Bass Home Electronics | 4883 Fallcrest Circle | Sarasota · Florida · 34233 | 941-866-1100 Sales & Tech Support |

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Reply to
Crash Gordon

Class A fire alarms in schools have no problem with it. Sub panels are used when needed for additional zones, and annunciation, but there is one big main panel and its all one system. Quite often there is just one panel in a mid or small sized school

Reply to
Bob La Londe

Elk makes a low current relay that would be perfect for this application.

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Kust set it up to for a negative trigger and powerit off the panel and you are good to go.

Reply to
Bob La Londe

You can do this, but I'd suggest that you make darn sure that it's acceptable by your AHJ. Fer sure ....It's not acceptable to do this in my area and you're sure taking a chance of something going seriously wrong ...... especially where the fire detection is concerned.

Keep in mind that I'm not familiar with either of the panels you're using but this is how I'd guess you should be able to do it.

Program the XR200 to require end of line resistors on zones 7 and 8. Install the resistors across the zone terminals. Program (lets say) zone 8 for fire and zone 7 for burglary. Run three wires from the XRS 6 panel to the XR200.

Connect one wire from a negative circuit (ground) terminal in the XRS6 panel to a negative circuit (ground) terminal in the XR200 ( A "common" ground connection must exist between the panels ....... I don't mean "earth ground")

Connect the second wire from "output 4" of the XRS6 to the positive terminal of zone 7 of the XR200, along with one end of the existing end of line resistor. ( when output 4 of the XRS6 goes negative, it will trip the zone.)

Connect the third wire from "output 3" of the XRS6 to the coil of a sensitive relay ( low current draw ie a few mills ... see Altronix) installed in the XR200 The other side of the relay coil should be connected to the aux positive output of the panel through a diode. The normally open contacts of the relay are connected across the end of line resistor on zone 7. ( when output 3 goes negative, the relay contacts will short out the resistor simulating a fire alarm.)

I'm not sure of the negative "swing" of these panels or the current available, so it's possible that this wont work over the distance of wire that you're using. If you can, just to be on the safe side, you should run a couple of "4 wires" and double up on the wires for each of the three wire runs or run 18 guage wire. If it still doesn't work because of lack of current or "swing" to negative, you might try biasing outputs 3 and 4 of the SRX6, positive, through a 2.2K resistor.

But ........ see what happens first.

Keep in mind this is not a good thing to do. There's no supervision or, as a matter of fact, nothing about this, that sounds like it should be done.

Reply to
Jim

Had a similar job on Vancouver Island years ago... It was a vehicle salvage yard with a long underground run from the main building to the guard shack (only we used a Ford E-250 service van and lots of cable lube). :-)

Reply to
Frank Olson

I've had fire marshals in CT and FL insist on a separate panel per structure. That doesn't mean that several systems can't be tied together and annunciated at one central location though. In fact, that is fairly common practice in industrial and educational campuses.

Side note: In Connecticut I dealt directly with AHJs on a regular basis. In Florida I only occasionally speak to them on behalf of commercial clients. In one case an inspector who happened to have retired from running a small alarm company tried to tell my client he was not allowed to install a fire alarm in his own small, commercial space. I emailed the client and cc'd the inspector a copy of the Florida statute in PDF with the exemption clauses highlighted. The installation went without a hitch after that and the only item the AHJ objected to during final inspection was an improper ground. The client took a short-cut and grounded the system to a cold water pipe. After a quick fix the CO was issued.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

NFPA 72 , 4.4.6.4 says, under "Zoning and Annunciation":

"Multiple buildings. If the system serves more than one building, each building shall be indicated separately."

- badenov

Reply to
Nomen Nescio

There are good reasons not to. One which has not been mentioned by others is the lack of supervision between the two panels. In other words, if the wire between your annunciator output on the XR6 and the XR200 is broken, you won't have any indication of that.

As others have pointed out, the XR200 panel supports multiple areas and multiple partitions. You could use a keypad in the garage along with a smoke, and you would have complete control of the garage system from inside your house, if you wish, in addition to being able to control the garage separately from the garage keypad. In which case, the connection is fully supervised. You could turn the garage protection on and off from inside the house if you want.

Wish you had asked this question before you bought the XR6. But looking at the bright side, the DMP keypad you bought for the XR6 can be connected to the XR200, so you won't have to buy new parts to make this work properly.

- badenov

Reply to
Nomen Nescio

You can do this, but I'd suggest that you make darn sure that it's acceptable by your AHJ. Fer sure ....It's not acceptable to do this in my area and you're sure taking a chance of something going seriously wrong ...... especially where the fire detection is concerned.

Keep in mind that I'm not familiar with either of the panels you're using but this is how I'd guess you should be able to do it.

Program the XR200 to require end of line resistors on zones 7 and 8. Install the resistors across the zone terminals. Program (lets say) zone 8 for fire and zone 7 for burglary. Run three wires from the XRS 6 panel to the XR200.

Connect one wire from a negative circuit (ground) terminal in the XRS6 panel to a negative circuit (ground) terminal in the XR200 ( A "common" ground connection must exist between the panels ....... I don't mean "earth ground")

Connect the second wire from "output 4" of the XRS6 to the positive terminal of zone 7 of the XR200, along with one end of the existing end of line resistor. ( when output 4 of the XRS6 goes negative, it will trip the zone.)

Connect the third wire from "output 3" of the XRS6 to the coil of a sensitive relay ( low current draw ie a few mills ... see Altronix) installed in the XR200 The other side of the relay coil should be connected to the aux positive output of the panel through a diode. The normally open contacts of the relay are connected across the end of line resistor on zone 7. ( when output 3 goes negative, the relay contacts will short out the resistor simulating a fire alarm.)

I'm not sure of the negative "swing" of these panels or the current available, so it's possible that this wont work over the distance of wire that you're using. If you can, just to be on the safe side, you should run a couple of "4 wires" and double up on the wires for each of the three wire runs or run 18 guage wire. If it still doesn't work because of lack of current or "swing" to negative, you might try biasing outputs 3 and 4 of the SRX6, positive, through a 2.2K resistor.

But ........ see what happens first.

Keep in mind this is not a good thing to do. There's no supervision or, as a matter of fact, nothing about this, that sounds like it should be done.

Reply to
Jim

The best way to do this is remove the XR6 and put a fire rated zone expander there in it's stead, using the 4 conductors from the house to the garage. That will give 3 burg zones and one for the smokes. Then program the garage keypad and zone expander as partition 2...bada bing..done and supervised.

"Jim" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... | | snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: | > Hello. | >

| > I have two DMP alarm panels. I have an XR200 and a XRSuper6 - both in | > different buildings approximately 100' away. | >

| > I have the XRSuper6 configured to activate output 3 whenever a Fire | > condition is triggered. It is also configured to activate output 4 | > whenever a Burglary condition is triggered. | >

| > I am trying to tie those outputs into the XR200 as zones 7 and 8. | >

| > I'm confused about how outputs work. From the manual: | >

| > "The four annunicator outputs can be programmed to indicate the | > activity ofthe panel's zones or conditions occurring on the system. | > Annunciator outputs do not provide a voltage but instead | > switch-to-ground voltage from another source." | >

| > For my system to work correctly, it is almost like I need the outputs | > to act like door contacts... Closed when not in alarm, and open when in | > alarm. | >

| > I've checked for continuity between the panel ground and the alarm | > output, but it is always open. Thus when I try to arm the XR200, I'm | > getting faults on zones 7 and 8. | >

| > Has anyone ever tried to do something like this? | >

| > Thanks, | > -- Jason Millard | | | You can do this, but I'd suggest that you make darn sure that it's | acceptable by your AHJ. Fer sure ....It's not acceptable to do this in | my area and you're sure taking a chance of something going seriously | wrong ...... especially where the fire detection is concerned. | | Keep in mind that I'm not familiar with either of the panels you're | using but this is how I'd guess you should be able to do it. | | Program the XR200 to require end of line resistors on zones 7 and 8. | Install the resistors across the zone terminals. Program (lets say) | zone 8 for fire and zone 7 for burglary. Run three wires from the XRS 6 | panel to the XR200. | | Connect one wire from a negative circuit (ground) terminal in the XRS6 | panel to a negative circuit (ground) terminal in the XR200 ( A | "common" ground connection must exist between the panels ....... I | don't mean "earth ground") | | Connect the second wire from "output 4" of the XRS6 to the positive | terminal of zone 7 of the XR200, along with one end of the existing end | of line resistor. ( when output 4 of the XRS6 goes negative, it will | trip the zone.) | | Connect the third wire from "output 3" of the XRS6 to the coil of a | sensitive relay ( low current draw ie a few mills ... see Altronix) | installed in the XR200 The other side of the relay coil should | be connected to the aux positive output of the panel through a diode. | The normally open contacts of the relay are connected across the end of | line resistor on zone 7. ( when output 3 goes negative, the relay | contacts will short out the resistor simulating a fire alarm.) | | I'm not sure of the negative "swing" of these panels or the current | available, so it's possible that this wont work over the distance of | wire that you're using. If you can, just to be on the safe side, you | should run a couple of "4 wires" and double up on the wires for each of | the three wire runs or run 18 guage wire. If it still doesn't work | because of lack of current or "swing" to negative, you might try | biasing outputs 3 and 4 of the SRX6, positive, through a 2.2K | resistor. | | But ........ see what happens first. | | Keep in mind this is not a good thing to do. There's no supervision or, | as a matter of fact, nothing about this, that sounds like it should be | done. | |

Reply to
Crash Gordon

Yep, that's what I experienced. A good annunciator with proper zone seperation fills the bill nicely. No need for a seperate CP. Of course I can see how local AHJs could interpret that differently. Sorta like the phone line rules.

Reply to
Bob La Londe

Been a long time since I had to do a bad underground pull like that. We did an 800 foot intercome run out to a new classroom at a high school. I tried everythign I could think of and the rope just would not move. Finally I took a turn of the rope around my waist, tied a loop, leaned into it and started walking. I used my work gloves to redduce the dig in fromt he rope and pushed int the rope with my hands on either side. I could just dig in to the turf enough with my feet to push forward with the strength of my legs. My boss came driving out aroudn the school after a while to see why I was pulling so slowly. When he saw what I was doing to keep the pull rope moving at all he flew out of truck and told me to stop. That I was working way too hard. (Grrr... I believe in getting the job done. Yeah its hard work. So what.) Ultimately we finished the pull with a truck.

Reply to
Bob La Londe

Exactly right. To wit, "the interpretation and application of this code shall be subject to the discretion of the authority having jurisdiction."

Reply to
Robert L Bass

Hello again.

Oh boy. It looks like my previous posts (submitted via Google) finally made it to the group about todays after I had sent a better thought out post. So I'm sorry about people having to duplicate there answers.

I'm now using Verizon newsgroups directly inside of utlook Express, so this will never happen again.

Some one asked how would a DIY get DMP products? Well to start off, when I built my house, I asked the contractor for an alarm system. The system was never installed, so I was left with a pile of parts. DMPs website provides PDFs for all of there products.

I realize that statement is just a comment, but I never gave DMP products a bad rap. I may not have the electronics aspect down, but the programming is actually pretty darn simple.

So someone also mentioned, that getting a XRSuper6 cost more money, etc. Well, actually I purchased a brand new XR20 off Ebay for my personal system, so I had the XRSuper6 laying around collecting dust. I almost resold it on Ebay, but I gave that to my brother to use with his XR200.

I should have done more research on the XR200. After the fact, it does seem like an awesome panel. I didn't realize it could be partitioned and armed separately etc.

Also (to my defense) we didn't have any 790 keypads just 690s. So we would have had to wait and purchase a zone expander. And since the only way to get parts is via EBay, who knows how long that would take to show up. I know, there are currently two on there now. Never fails :)

Anyway, we're still going to go use the XRSuper6 in the garage. Everything is already installed, so we really don't want disconnect everything and start over.

We decided to get an 860 Relay Module, and an additional 305, and tie the N/C contacts of Relay 1 and Relay into the XR200 as Zones 7 and 8.

When the garage goes into burglary, output 3 goes active, opens the relay, and the XR200 goes into alarm via zone 7 and the house keypad displays Garage Burglary.

If a fire is detected, output 4 goes active, opens the relay, and the XR200 goes into alarm via zone 8 and the house keypad displays Garage Fire.

Again, I realize that this is not a correct solution, but it should work. Our system is unsupervised anyway.

I also understand the higher risk of lightening. A little better for us, the wires were run way underground years ago.

Thanks for all your comments and answers. I really appreciate it!

-- Jason

Reply to
Jason Millard

So......then anyone with a credit card can get DMP on the internet?? Bwaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaa. Jackcsg, are you there? Hello? Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! js

Reply to
alarman

The guy who made that comment is OK. He has his opinions about DIY and I understand where he's coming from. However, I agree with you. Installing and programming alarms isn't rocket science. If you use read the manual, use common sense and then read the manual again you'll be alright.

Have you searched for an online DMP dealer other than eBay? I don't carry it but I wouldn't be surprised if one of the other large online stores does.

Sounds as though you've got a good handle on things. If you need help or if you ever need sensors (not DMP but compatible brands) let me know. I have thousands on my website.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

That's the problem...

You also have lot's of complaints at the BBB as well...

Reply to
Frank Olson

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