Connecting two DMP alarms together? Outputs to Zones? Possible?

They're collector outputs.

Why do you want to do this? If you can run a wire from the xr-200 why not just put that systems fire zone on one of the xr-200 fire zones ( 9 & 10 ) are both 2 wire smoke det. fire zones on the 200.

besides, this sounds like a commercial installation and the xr-6 is not commercial fire rated (pretty sure it's not)...you may be better off running a fire rated zone expander off the 200 over to the other building...that way its also supervised.

there are other possibilities as well.

Last time I checked you couldn't run fire alarms for two separate buildings on the same panel. It's been a while since the issue has come up. I agree you don't want to use a residential panel for commercial fire.

Why not?

We have lots of strip center type stores and small office buildings that are all strung together on one fire system. As long as it annunciates the area where the fire is.

I may be wrong, as it's been at least 5 years since I've done commercial fire, but I still see fire guys doing this.

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| | | > there are other possibilities as well. | |

Most of the strip malls I've seen are one long building which should present no problem. Those can often be protected with a partitionable system and I have done just that on occasion. The problem is with separate structures.

In a multi-tenant structure there shouldn't be a problem. Sorry if I wasn't being clear.

Maybe I should elaborate more on my last post. I'm not a professional, but a DIYer.

In reality, if we had one fire zone, we could have just used the XR200 to monitor both buildings. We already have 4 keypads hooked to the XR200, and I thought I can't add anymore than that. (At least you can't on the XRSuper6?)

All we wanted was two buildings to could be armed independently.

It would just be nice to just to tie the overall Burglary and Fire signals from the XRSuper6 into the XR200. Shouldn't the outputs be able to assist me in some fashion?

Thanks again,

-- Jas> They're collector outputs.

What about a school, it that ok? js

I've installed (as an installer for someone else) several fire systems where it was one system for several buildings, connections under parking lot in conduit going to one panel.

| > Most of the strip malls I've seen are one long building which should | present | > no problem. Those can often be protected with a partitionable system and | I | > have done just that on occasion. The problem is with separate structures. | >

| > > I may be wrong, as it's been at least 5 years since I've done commercial | > > fire, but I still see fire guys doing this. | >

| > In a multi-tenant structure there shouldn't be a problem. Sorry if I | wasn't | > being clear. | | What about a school, it that ok? | js | | |

Denver Nature Museum is setup like that, the fire panel is in a small building in the parking lot

Okay, I tried posting a couple times but they never made it through. Here's another try.

Actually the system isn't commericial. The XR200 is attached to the house, and the XRSuper6 is attached to a garage. All the zones are used up in the house, except for 7 and 8.

I'm not a professional alarm system installer. I'm just a DIY, with the only experience being DMP panels.

You are right, that I could have brought the fire zone and burglary into to the XR200, but I didn't want to do that. I wanted the garage to be armed separate.

So the only way I thought I could tie the two systems together would be if I used the annuciator outputs of the XRSuper6.

Regardless of industry best practices (which I 100% respect), shouldn't I be able to do accomplish this?

I'm starting to understand more about how the outputs work, ie going to ground when triggered. I realize that if I tie into aux power, and use the output, when the alarm is triggered I will get 12V across the line. When the output is not active, I somehow need to come up with a normally closed circuit. Would I need to use a transistor or relay somehow?

Again, thank you all for your responses. I really appreciate it.

I have a couple more questions about DMPs keypad bus system. But I will start another topic.

Thanks,

-- Jason Millard

Actually it's not a commercial system. Just a house and detached garage.

Thanks,

-- Jason

Okay, I tried posting a couple times but they never made it through. Here's another try.

Actually the system isn't commericial. The XR200 is attached to the house, and the XRSuper6 is attached to a garage. All the zones are used up in the house, except for

I'm not a professional alarm system installer. I'm just a DIY, with the only experience being DMP panels.

You are right, that I could have brought the fire zone and burglary into to the XR200, but I didn't want to do that. I wanted the garage to be armed separate.

So the only way I thought I could tie the two systems together would be if I used the annuciator outputs of the XRSuper6.

Regardless of industry best practices (which I 100% respect), shouldn't I be able to do accomplish this?

I'm starting to understand more about how the outputs work, ie going to ground when triggered. I realize that if I tie into aux power, and use the output, when the alarm is triggered I will get 12V across the line. When the output is not active, I somehow need to come up with a normally closed circuit. Would I need to use a transistor or relay somehow?

Again, thank you all for your responses. I really appreciate it.

I have a couple more questions about DMPs keypad bus system. But I will start another topic.

Thanks,

-- Jason Millard

I did the Coke plant like that years ago, the fire panel was in the security building waaaaaayyyyy out in the parking lot.

It was the longest pull I'd ever done, first we tried a come-along but that was brutal, then a motorized winch (almost worked) finally ended up tying the pull line to the bumper of my jeep and driving really slow!

The electricians were idiots, the conduit was all one run...at least it was big and was strung, otherwise it would have been impossible to pull.

| >

| > | > Most of the strip malls I've seen are one long building which should | > | present | > | > no problem. Those can often be protected with a partitionable system | > and | > | I | > | > have done just that on occasion. The problem is with separate | > structures. | > | >

| > | > > I may be wrong, as it's been at least 5 years since I've done | > commercial | > | > > fire, but I still see fire guys doing this. | > | >

| > | > In a multi-tenant structure there shouldn't be a problem. Sorry if I | > | wasn't | > | > being clear. | > | | > | What about a school, it that ok? | > | js | > | | > | | > | | >

| >

| |

The XR-200 is partitionable you could have just put a expansion keypad in the garage and ran 4 zones off the keypad and run that on it's own partition...or a regular keypad and 4 or 8 or 16 zone expander. They only thing you wouldn't have is a separate siren for the garage system (which you could rig another way). One partition for the house, one for the garage, both on the same account number saving the client having to pay for 2 monitored accounts. Would have been less for equipment as well.

You know the 200 will expand to 250+ plus zones right - so you couldn't be out of zones on the 200 unless your house is really really big.

You're probably the only DIY'er I've run into on the internet using DMP.

| > there are other possibilities as well. | >

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I haven't used DMP so I'm not sure what those are but if they are separate alarm control panels you could just put the fire alarm on the local panel in the garage AND monitor an output from that panel on the house system. As with everything else in this business, acceptability of a particular solution is at the "discretion of the authority having jurisdiction." In short, check with your local fire marshal or building inspector. He can tell you what he will or will not accept.

Fire alarm zones are unaffected by arming and disarming of the burglary protection so you should be able to accomplish what you want regardless to which panel you connect the fire alarm sensors.

AFAIK, it's OK to connect one system to announce a condition in another building. You should avoid actually connecting fire alarm sensors (smoke, heat detectors, pull statio0ns, etc.) to a control panel in another structure though.

You can do it if that way you choose though I would suggest you reconsider.

If you connect the two systms together in any manner, I strongly advise you to isolate the connections. The simplest way to do this is to use a dry contact relay output from one panel to trigger a circuit on the other panel. Be aware, however, that zone wiring run external to the building is much more likely to suffer lightning damage.

No problem. That's what the newsgroup is supposed to be for.

Not being expert on DMP, I'll leave that topic to others.

I'd have told the electricians to run a new conduit. Obviously, the one they installed was either to small, had too many bends or both. There are limitations on allowable pulling force due to the tendency of the conductors to stretch, effectively reducing the diameter of the conductors and with it their ampacity. If there had been any coaxial cables for addressable loops in the bundle using such force could render the system inop.

Not saying you did something bad, Flash, but I'd have declined to finish until they provided a proper conduit with properly spaced pulling locations.

It would have been impossible. The conduit was big enough, just waaayyyy tooo long and already under the paved parking lot. I don't remember the distance but it was at least a 5 min. walk!

| > It was the longest pull I'd ever done, first we tried a come-along but | > that was brutal, then a motorized winch (almost worked) finally ended up | > tying the pull line to the bumper of my jeep and driving really slow! | >

| > The electricians were idiots, the conduit was all one run...at least it | > was big and was strung, otherwise it would have been impossible to pull. | | I'd have told the electricians to run a new conduit. Obviously, the one | they installed was either to small, had too many bends or both. There are | limitations on allowable pulling force due to the tendency of the conductors | to stretch, effectively reducing the diameter of the conductors and with it | their ampacity. If there had been any coaxial cables for addressable loops | in the bundle using such force could render the system inop. | | Not saying you did something bad, Flash, but I'd have declined to finish | until they provided a proper conduit with properly spaced pulling locations. | | -- | | Regards, | Robert L Bass | | =============================>

| Bass Home Electronics | 4883 Fallcrest Circle | Sarasota · Florida · 34233 | 941-866-1100 Sales & Tech Support |

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ps...as a partitioned system the garage could have acted as a totally separate alarm system (arm/disarm, etc). It could even have it's own account number.

|| > there are other possibilities as well. || >

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Hmmm, Where would a DIYer get a DMP panel, and the support to program it???