Are alarm companies trying to get rid of 3rd party monitoring and hobby installers?

I'm just a hobby installer and have only used honeywell stuff. I was reading up on the new lyric system. Apparently you need to be setup through alarmnet 360 to even program the thing.

It seems dsc and honeywell are both locking down their systems. I've heard even the keypad bus on the dsc panels are encrypted so you cant use a 3rd party device like the envisalink. The lyric fwir doesn't even have a bell output. Thats flippin ridiculous. Probably to prevent someone from using a relay for self monitoring?

I would guess they are also going to lock down future hardwired panels like the vista? I would have liked to upgrade to the new six sensors but doubt they are ever going to release a receiver for the vista.

It seems they really HATE it when people self monitor and not for the right reasons.

I like having a robust alarm system and may end up with a elk panel since they seem to be less locked down. I'm also planning to use more hardwired sensors so I'm not locked into a proprietary mess.

Many people are switching to ipcamera systems that don't want monthly monitoring fee's. With blue iris you can set up different profiles and alerts to mimic turning on and off a alarm. Also some cameras now have alarm inputs as well that you can hook whatever kind of alarm sensor you want up to.

Reply to
Loading thread data ...

Please define what a hobby installer is. Do you install security systems in your home just for the fun of it, or perhaps you change them out from time to time to see what it would be like for your home?

Or, do you install your 'hobby' systems in other people's homes?

If it is in other people's homes, you are not a hobby installer, but simply an unlicensed person who does not appear to know that much at this time.

Do you charge others for your hobby? If so, then you are probably going aga inst the law of the land also.

A licensed security installer takes upon himself or herself the responsibil ity of protecting a home or a business correctly and efficiently.

It is nice that you are interested, but I sure do hope that you are not ins talling for anyone other than yourself.

Just because you know something about them does not make you an installer/t echnician. Perhaps you should consider working for someone in the field tha t is licensed and then you would learn all the responsibilities involved in the industry ...and the knowledge will come all by itself over the years.

Reply to

Not to take away from your reply, Bro. Dawson.. But according to my accountant and the IRS, if your self-employed and do not make a profit for x number of years, your employment is considered a Hobby.. Least wise that's what they been telling me for the last 40 years... ;-)

Reply to

Only for myself and close family. Didn't charge them a penny for the work.

I guess I call it a hobby because I'm a bit more passionate about alarm systems than the average home owner. If I had the time I would very much like to be trained by a skilled installer. Doubt I would learn much if I worked for the "professionals" that just want to slap a all in one unit by my front door. I'm mostly interested in hardwired setups.

Alarm companies should be more worried about the simpli junk type kits sold on amazon than someone wanting to learn and install a quality system their self.

Reply to

That's not "the professionals" you refer to. That is "the mass marketers" who are in the "RMR (recurring monthly revenue) business, like ADT et al. Unlike those, the "real" alarm companies take the service they provide seriously. You would learn much from those people.

John Sowden American Sentry Systems, Inc. UL Central Station Alarm Company Service the San Francisco Bay Area Since 1967

Reply to
John R. Sowden

Well said.

I call companies such as ADT, MRC's or Monitoring Revenue Companies. They a re not security companies. They send only salesman who are only interested in getting their commissions. They are not concerned about how secure the c ustomer will be.

I started out with ADT as an installation manager, actually that was my fir st job in the security industry. I ran the store from the beginning and I i nstructed the salesman not to do anything stupid. This was possibly the onl y ADT facility that was ran by the installation dept. and not the sales dep t.

I did have one sales guy who told a customer that the one motion that we wo uld be putting into her home, would cover 2000 s.f., and, if anyone just to uched the windows outside, the alarm would go off. I am laughing now thinki ng about it, but I had to inform the customer that it was not true, nor pos sible.

I must say, he probably was an ex used-car salesman. I think he could have convinced that poor lady that just looking at her windows, the alarm would go off... The cops would have really been upset with constant alarms at her house!

Reply to

Whenever I see the term professional in a advertisement I am cautious. The word doesn't mean much and is used by anyone that provides a service. That being said most of you here are probably jedi master level installers and I'm sure I would learn a lot.

To me it seems honeywell is encouraging these lacking installs with there obsession over all in one units. I think the monitoring center will send the cops if a disarm signal isn't received after the entry delay is activated. Even if the panel is smashed off the wall. I think this is good as a last resort but my theory is that some burglars will think they have disabled the alarm and be out before anyone arrives anyway.

I don't know if its true but I've heard cops don't take burglar alarms serious anymore. Thats why for myself I like to self monitor and turn on cams so I can actually see whats going on.

I have glass break sensors on nearly every window, contacts, and pir's to back everything up. I like at least the doors and pir units to be hardwired. Not sure if I completely trust a glass break sensor though. Seems you would need to mount them inside the window frame for best reliability. I like to have the alarm on when everyone is asleep and know that it would be very difficult for someone to enter without triggering it.

I've been broken into once and just recently gave footage to the cops of a guy checking cars along with his license plate.

I would guess one of the most important things as a installer would be to motivate people to actually use their system.

Reply to

I have to agree with you regarding the term "professional".

Anyone who decides that they are a professional ...... can.

Of course, like any home improvement trade, there are those who will pass t hemselves off as experienced contractors but are not. As is always the case , consumers doing due diligence is the way to greatly reduce the scam artis ts. Ask for references, and check them out, check if they are licensed, get referrals from other satisfied consumers. Don't pay the final payment unt il you are satisfied that the job was done to your satisfaction. The burden of finding the best contractor is entirely the responsibility of the consu mer. Those consumers who get poor workmanship most often have not taken the time to completely vet their contractors. They are the people who are resp onsible for the success of non-professional companies.

However ...... Professionals make their living by plying their trade. If on ly seems reasonable that they would not be enthusiastic about helping and s upporting DIY'ers. If someone wants to in stall their own system, fine. But why would they expect the professional installers to support them? Why wou ld they expect manufacturers who's main source of income is from profession al companies to make it easy for DIY'ers? Although, I see that some of them are caving in to the market pressures that companies such as this ridiculo us Simple Safe who tell lies, half truths and the only standards that they comply with are those that they fabricate. This is a perfect example of con sumers not completely investigating what true security is and perpetrating the success of companies like this. Their success places marketing pressure on major alarm equipment manufacturers to enter the DiY market much to the dismay of professional installers.

There are interesting times ahead for the professional alarm trade.

With regard to self monitoring, for you to depend upon it totally is a fool hardy. Connection to a central station along with notification to you is th e surest way to insure that a response will definitely be made .... even if your cell phone is not able to be communicated with.

By the way, keep in mind that alarm systems are a deterrent and should not be categorized as "protection". Any statistics regarding loss due to burgla ry give the dollar amount of loss that occurs. with and without a working a larm system. Obviously, losses are smaller when there is a working and used alarm system in place.

There is one thing that you can depend on in all of this. When seconds count, the police are minutes (usually much more) away.

Reply to
Jim Davis

You can program and run the Lyric just like you can the standard Lynx although there are better panels out there if you are looking for self monitoring or even setting up an external bell output

As far as the ipcamera systems yea they are great for recording someone taking your stuff but won't do jack for calling the authorities

Reply to

Working for an alarm company I am not worried at all about the simpli stuff, that's been around for years and hasn't made a dent in the industry, it's always been for a certain market that won't by a standard system anyway

You talk bad about a simpli system yet you are looking at a Lyric? That makes no sense

Reply to

Honeywell has a fairly broad range of security panels the Lyric is but one, they aren't obsessing over anything

You heard wrong

Watch the nice burglar carry out the widescreen LCD tv is about all you are going to get, good luck getting the cops out

Depends on the glass break

Good luck with that its not illegal


Reply to

DSC, Honeywell, Interlogix, Napco are not in business for home hobby folks they are in business for dedicated installers. If a 3rd party system like Envisalink doesn't work its hardly Honeywell or DSC's fault

You can setup a Z-Wave siren but seriously if you are wanting that the Lyric (or any other self contained system) isn't the best panel anyway

Probably not nor should they, Vista is older tech

Their systems are designed for central station monitoring and have been since they started manufacturing panels. If you want self monitoring you should be using someone else

Reply to

Windesmear, You and are very much the same person LOL. I learned that it wi ll take the police more than 30 minutes to get to my home when called so I gave up on them doing anything of value for me. Burglars will be in and out in 5 minutes once the alarm starts screaming anyway. I've got the alarm ho rns hidden inside the house so when they go off it's so loud you can't stan d it. I've got a DVR and cameras too. Make sure that your DVR is well hidde n so it doesn't get destroyed or stolen.

Reply to
Steven Vaccarello Forums website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.