Z-Wave Pool Thermostat with Water Temperature Sensor

Why not just steal and post it like you do everything else??

Reply to
Frank Olson
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No. You program and test the ELK system with a PC. Once it's up and running you can disconnect the PC. The M1G runs as a stand-alone unit. It can be part of a PC-centric system if desired but that's not necessary to keep things humming.

Contact me off the group if you like.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

Several of my customers use Omnistat thermostats. They are compatible with ELK's M1G system.

For operating your HVAC equipment, yes. I don't know if their water probe interfaces to the Omnistat or directly to the controller. From what I've read so far, it's a separate unit.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

Well in any event it turns out that the Z-series is vaporware for now - it is in the catalog but not yet available.

So it looks as if there is no Z-wave thermostat at all on the market currently? How can that be?

Reply to
Richard Kaplan

HomeSeer has been around for quite a while and they have plug-ins for numerous subsystems. When Rich was first developing the software I supplied the test hardware (a Napco P9600 system with HA interface). One issue you might have with this approach is that it requires the PC to be running to integrate your systems as well as to allow remote access. The ELK system does not require a dedicated PC. I prefer a design that does not hinge entirely upon a central PC. YMMV of course.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

The most critical function for me is operating the pool heat 24/7 in the winter.

With the HomeSeer system, a PC is needed for remote access, but if I use z-wave thermostats then the pool heat will continue working even if the PC is down. Any other functions I add such as lighting are inconsequential and if they stop when the PC is down that does not matter.

I am intrigued though by your comment about the ELK system not requiring a dedicated PC. Are you saying the rules are located in a microprocessor in the ELK-M1G and therefore will still function with the PC inoperative?

Reply to
Richard Kaplan

Could you elaborate further? I am uncertain why I would want a system which has the complexity of a hardware panel like the M1G. The M1G requires a hardware panel, a PC, and hardware sensors. Homeseer eliminates the hardware panel and works with just a PC and hardware sensors. I am not sure what I lose by avoiding a hardware panel.

Reply to
Richard Kaplan

The issue here is that Z-wave doesn't travel great distances. If the distance from the thermostat (or any other device) to the controller exceeds ~30 feet, it won't work. Thus, if you were already planning to automate lighting, etc., Z-Wave might have been your best choice. Since lighting control is not important to you, Z-Wave is not the best protocol.

Yes, precisely. Bear in mind that ELK is synonymous with Z-Wave. The system can work with Z-Wave, USB, X10, etc. Their M1XSP (up to eight RS232 units) can also be used to communicate with a number of proprietary lighting and HVAC devices. For your swimming pool application, the optimum choice will be a stand-alone, programmable controller with the ELK piggy-backed to monitor and operate it. That's actually not difficult to do.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

A stand-alone panel like the M1G or Omni does not require a PC to operate your systems. You only use a PC to configure it. The sensors are a constant since you need some form of sensor no matter what controls you use. The purpose of the M1G in this application is to tie everything together and to provide online access to monitor and control via the Internet.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

It might be that the firms who made them want to avoid patent suits. I have not read the details of the patents involved so this might be a stretch but the description of one about "a transceiver sharing the same junction box with a switch" might apply to the Z-Wave thermostats which are essentially nothing more than transceivers and switches.

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Have you asked RCS or ACT (HomePro) why they discontinued theirs?

Reply to
Dave Houston

| Yes, precisely. Bear in mind that ELK is synonymous with Z-Wave.

I'm sure you meant to say "isn't synonymous" here. I realize it is clear from the context as long as you know the other keywords but since a new user is involved I thought I should point it out. :)

| The system can work with Z-Wave, USB, X10, etc. Their M1XSP (up to | eight RS232 units) can also be used to communicate with a number of | proprietary lighting and HVAC devices.

Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com

Reply to
Dan Lanciani

Yes, I did. Brain fart. Sorry.

Thank you.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

All I need to do is plug in a few lighting control devices and the distance issue is resolved, right? No problem at all.

OK I must be missing something really basic - why bother with the hardware controller like the M1G at all? What not stick with just a computer and a bunch of devices?

Reply to
Richard Kaplan

So if I write a bunch of complex rules with an ELK-M1G the rules are stored on the M1G? It functions as a computer with onboard memory?

Reply to
Richard Kaplan

Correct. The M1G is by far the best automation controller on the market (and it's a powerful security system as well). It's pricey, but well worth it.

Reply to
Frank Olson

You can do it either way. The hardware controller will usually be more reliable though and it costs less than a dedicated PC. It's also more powerful in most cases.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

Yep. It's like a dedicated computer with specialized I/O geared to do this sort of stuff.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

OK got it - thanks. I will first get it running with the PC as a proof of concept test and then look into the controller.

Reply to
Richard Kaplan

Sure thing. If I can be of any help along the way, feel free to call or post.

Reply to
Robert L Bass

Just some follow-up for those who are interested..and a thanks to all those who offered help while I was researching this.

I have completed the home automation system installation and it has been working well for a couple of weeks now.

I was able to locate two remote water sensors for the RCS TZ40 Z-wave thermostat. I connnected one of these thermostats to my pool heat pump and another to the pool gas heater. I also connected two more TZ40 thermostats inside my house for my heating and air conditioning systems. For the pool I also set up Z-wave switches for my main pool pump, a recirculator pump to heat my pool dome, and assorted lights working on motion detection. And I set up a number of lights inside my house with Z-wave switches as well to increase coverage of the Z- wave network.

For temperature sensing I installed an RFXCOM receiver which reads air and water temperature at various locations using Oregon Scientific probes.

I also re-plumbed my pool heat sources so the heat pump and gas heater run in series and thus I can operate either or both without switching any valves.

I installed HomeSeer software to operate all of the above, and I am tweaking the control logic to determine the most efficient way to manage the various heat sources - in particular this setup lets me choose between the heat pump and gas heater in a manner which is energy-efficient depending on the outside temperature. Also the control logic can turn on the pump in freezing temperatures to avoid frozen pipes. I can control all of this in an automated fashion via HomeSeer events or I can monitor and control the system remotely via an Internet link to my PC which runs HomeSeer.

So far so good... it seems like a very nice solution to the problem of pool automation with dual heat sources.

Reply to
Richard Kaplan

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