ControlThink announces Z-wave SDK

That should make all the developers who paid thousands for the SDK ecstatic.

Dave I thought you would like this.

This is some of the stuff that some doubted me on here regarding inside knowledge. Now that it is official I'm able to talk about it. If you're free tonight stop by

I already made the HS guys mad as they deleted my post in their forums. They are in the group that spent a lot of money on Zwave!

The Intermatic hardware alone is worth the $129.95

I was playing around with zigbee with some Motorola modules. Zigbee was all free from the start but they do not have any hardware out yet for home automation. If a kit like this did not come out it would be history for Z-wave because it would not be able to take on Zigbee once the hardware showed up. Now I can finally dump my X10. I did not need all the bells and whistles of Homeseer or Charmed Quark. Great news!

Tom

Actually, there are Zigbee devices for HA. Crestron and Control-4 have Zigbee based devices and Eaton has announced some products although the last I saw they had delayed them to solve some unspecified technical problems. Lusora has a line of geezer monitors based on Zigbee.

But, I suspect you're right in that Zensys finally realized their attitude towards developers was counter productive and had to be changed if they are to compete with Zigbee and Insteon.

I th>I was playing around with zigbee with some Motorola modules. Zigbee was

That Zensys has finally adopted a more sensible approach to developers does not change my view of the technology itself.

I've always said that hard-wired is the most reliable but also the most expensive and least flexible.

PLC has flexibility, potential low-cost, and even X-10 is reliable _if_ you understand it and are willing to invest time and effort in maintaining it.

RF is useful as an adjunct to either of the above but, IMO, is not suitable as the main HA technology. Metallic J-boxes, flashing, wire lathe, ducts, appliances, etc. will always make RF beyond the skill level of the typical DIYer.

Insteon seems to have excellent reliability and reasonable cost. I expect it will garner most of the market. The only thing for which it is unsuitable is security since killing the power will disable it.

Does the new remote solve the problem with Zensys >

What a remarkably bad way to do things! Punish the people who had faith in you in the beginning by lowering the cost to newcomers. Probably a sign that few people were buying the kit at outrageously high prices. They're probably afraid the Zigbee will swamp them when it arrives in full force. I'll bet they're right!

-- Bobby G.

I dont think they wanted to punish people but sometimes you have to compete or die. It's like the guy who was hiking, fell and got his arm stuck between two rocks. He had to decide whether he should wait it out and hope someone finds him or cut off his arm now and get himself free (losing your arm forever). Zensys with Z-wave is slow to take off and now others are creeping up. I think their technology and their partners products are good and gaining momentum. I had X10 for many years and it worked well. As I got more computers and other electronics X10 started to have false positives. X10 is a simple protocol with no error checking and no closed loop for status. It will die soon but prices are very low and they are still around.

as the main HA technology. Metallic J-boxes, flashing, wire lathe, ducts, appliances, etc. will always make RF beyond the skill level of the typical DIYer.

That is patently untrue, friend. High quality RF systems for security and home automation have been around for years. Most DIYers have no trouble at all installing and servicing them.

Z-Wave devices are designed to function in metallic J-boxes. While metal ducts and such can occasionally pose a problem for some systems, Z-Wave has a distinct advantage in that every controlled device is also a repeater. In a complete system a switch that may not receive good signal from the master controller has multiple opportunities to receive signal from other nearby sensors.

Not just Insteon but almost all PLC devices are unacceptable for security. RF technology far less robust than Z-Wave has long been used for security. Don't be surprised to see Z-Wave communicating alarm sensors in the near future.

Regards, Robert L Bass

Isn't "Z Wave" one of the "latest" technologies out there?? Hasn't X-10 been around a lot longer and how often have *you* said that it's "unreliable" and "lower quality"? What other "high quality RF systems" for home automation "have been around for years"??

That's a "blanket statement" that's patently untrue. The number of DIYer's that ask questions or have problems getting a handle on installing these devices in this Newsgroup and others far outnumber the experienced Home Automation enthusiasts you see here. "DIY" often isn't as easy as you "advertise".

Hmmm... I'd suggest reading what you've written before pressing "send"... :-))

Or how about Frank actually offering help at some point other than to just bash Bass?

Really Frank, it's pathetic.

Agreed that it is reliable.

Most expensive? Have you actually compared a Centralite hard-wired system installed at the time of home construction compared to Lutron RF and other high end ? Do you have any experience whatsoever in this matter?

What do you mean by 'flexible'? Buy into an RF system and your entire investment depends on the proprietary products from a single company. Copper wire, on the other hand, gives timeless, multi-vendor, multiple technology 'flexibility'.

ROTFL.

One day after Dave posts (yet again!) an assertion of X-10 reliability " if [ ahem, like Dave] you understand it",Dave finds that all X-10 on one phase of his power is "blocked" and he has no idea why.

Message-ID: Subject: mystery signal Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:02:54 GMT

"... but yesterday was the first time I saw the nearly continuous signal. It blocks X-10...... ...... Any ideas? "

(I have posted in this other thread an idea that fits the facts he has provided.)

So how has Dave's superior wisdom made his X-10 system 'reliable' if it now doesn't work at all?

Reality check needed here (still, and as always). In my opinion, it is, and has been, and will continue to be unwise and unhelpful to claim that X-10 is "reliable".

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

I see... So, if we were to use your interpretation of what I wrote, it's perfectly alright for Bass to "bash" Dave. I was pointing out the errors in Robert's response... You need to read what I wrote again and put it in the context of the thread, instead of "cruisin'" my responses to Bass and "jumping in" every time I publicly disagree with him.

Where the heck is Kearney??? More "bashing" in this response, Mr. Kearney... Mr. Kearney??? Ohhh... I forgot...

BASS!

Now we'll get the appropriate response!! :-)

Hi Bill,

I was busy doing other things for ~a month and didn't post anything. Upon my return to the other newsgroup, he immediately started in. Numerous ASA members told him to stop. He did.. for about 1 day. I see he's still planning to trash this newsgroup. That's unfortunate but there's not much anyone can do to stop someone who cares nothing for the rest of the group. Sad.

"Frank Olson"

I know Bill's tried explaining this to you before, but it hasn't quite made it through to conscious thought. Marc and Dave are not like you or me. Both have been here for years, answering lots of questions in their respective areas of expertise for hundreds, if not thousands, of people. They are world-class specialists in their niches. That earns them a little more slack than you or I would be entitled to.

While I'd rather not see *any* backbiting in CHA, (hint, hint to D&M) there's a substantial difference between two legendary posters having a serious, though unfortunate personal disagreement and a harpy gnawing at someone's liver every time he appears to post.

What you need to do is go to Google and count the posts they've made that aren't "attack posts" and compare them to the ones that are. When your ratio of "out of bounds" posts starts to approach either of theirs *and* you establish yourself as a renowned expert in some field germane to HA, then I'll certainly cut you the same slack I cut them. I'll bet Bill K. would, too. They've both been enormously helpful to me and while it's unfortunate they're at loggerheads, it's not quite the same thing as your posts about Bob Bass. Not at all.

The problem is that you're more likely to summit Mt. Everest than ever reach their levels of expertise or their ratio of helpful to personal posts. That, in a nutshell, is why you can't compare how people react to Marc H. and Dave H. to the way they react to you. It's just a question of signal content and signal to noise ratios. You've demonstrated on several occasions that you *can* offer useful advice here. Try keeping that up for a while longer. The results may surprise you!

-- Bobby G.

"Robert Green"

Indeed, it seems Frank's just stuck in his rut harboring his grudges and seems to end up having nothing to offer other than to attack Bass. Bass is certainly no angel, nor are Marc and Dave but as you've noticed, they're on average quite helpful.

What he said. Nice points made Bob.

-Bill Kearney