Need some antenna advice (for my CM15A, of course)

Hi again!

Well, the eggbeater antenna has been complete for two weeks now (minus the amp), and so far, the results have been less than optimal.

I think part of the problem is the shape of the antenna. I think I used the wrong kind of wire. It is 16 gauge and copper, but it is in strands.

Therefore, making two circles of of them was next to impossible.

They look like messy, deformed circles.

Could this be part of the reason for the lackluster performance?

Thanks!

What does "less than optimal" mean? When compared to the original antenna, has your range increased? decreased? How much. In general, I've seen a doubling of range with just the eggbeater antenna and another doubling with the preamp. But environmental factors play a significant role so there's no universal, onesizefitsall solution.

Even messy, deformed circles can work. I've even used rectangles.

What did you use for the phasing line? What did you use for the lead-in? What did you use for connectors?

Have you tried rotating the antenna? I've found it's not 100% omnidirectional. I recommend rotating any antenna 15-30° each day until you find the best orientation. The "best orientation" is usually a compromise with better reception from some directions than from others.

Where is it vertically? A central locati>Hi again!

Hi Dave, Thanks again for responding!

Believe it or not, the unit worked WAY better last week. Now it's just terrible. I have a credit card controller right in front of me, and I am 2 feet from the antenna, yet unless I cup my hand around the controller, it just won't work. When I switch housecodes, the controller registers well with my old Transceivers upstairs, though.

My ActiveHawk PIR sensor is about 6 feet away, and it works sporadically. Another Active Eye is in the room next to this one, and it seems to register only 50% of the time.

Too weird.

It isn't much better than the original antenna at all. It was last week. Maybe it is all about position. Last week, it was "okay", meaning the 16-in-1 palmpads worked fine throughout all 3 stories of my house, but the thin controllers worked in 75% of places. Not now, though.

For the phasing, I used that 8 or so inches (I forget) of the RG62, 93 Ohm Cable. The one you recommend. That is the same cable that I use from the unit to the antenna. I used BNC Connectors, but they may not be the ultimate match in terms of Ohms, though.

The cable does come out of the connectors very easily. Although I have a great crimping tool for RJ6 Coax, these were all about trial and error. What a messy project.

I wonder if the connection between the stock while antenna cable and my connector has anything to do with the problem. It seems like the connector is hanging by a thread.

I did a test today, using a continuity tester. I made sure that each pair of the screws on the antenna is indeed making contact with the CM15A. Indeed, it is. (That was a little disappointing, because I was hoping that would solve my problem).

I wonder if part of the problem is simply where I have this antenna located. I am in the basement, and it's right behind this massive

22" CRT I am using to type this letter. My two other transceivers are on my main level of the house, and those work with EVERY palmpad, active eye, eagle eye, and thin controller, anywhere and everywhere.

I think I will have to somehow move this large antenna onto my main level, and straighten out the circles that look like warped eggplants now.

I was hoping that I'd be okay with like this, in the basement.

I was wondering - If I wanted to run this antenna up to the next floor of my house, I will certainly need a longer cable.

Was I correct in using RG62/U for the main wire, too? I do have 100" of RG6 cable here. Could I make an extension from one to the other?

This is quite strange...!

MG

HI Dave,

Okay, thanks. Yes, RG58/U is very easy to find, and it's pretty cheap, too.

For some reason, I was under the impression that I needed the more expensive RG62, as I used for the phasing wire.

I do have a 50 foot spool of RG-58 (or perhaps RG6) here. The ends are not BNC, though. They are the regular cable wire ends (F-connectors, I believe they are called)

Can I go with those types of connectors, or do I have to splice the wire?

Also, will RG6 be a problem? I remember the cable guy telling me that RG6 is much better than RG58, but perhaps that is only for digital cable applications...

MG

Thanks Dave! I saw the emphasis you added. Thanks. On my print out, there is no mention of any type of other cable, aside from the RG62. Perhaps that it what confused me.

Weird.

Okay, I am glad that is solved.

Sitting on my lap, I have a 100 ft. roll of RCA Coax Cable, RG6, with F connectors on both ends.

Shall I give a shot, or wait to find an RG58/U cable?

I also have a choice of using my BNC connectors and cutting off the pre-assembled F connectors on this 100 foot cable, or I can try to buy some Female F Connectors to solder into my unit.

I think if I cut off the pre-assembled ends, I'll be better off. My female BNC plugs are ready to go, and I think 100ft is too excessive.

Maybe I'll just run to the store and get 50 feet of RG58...

Fun fun!

Thanks again!

You need 50-ohm coax (RG-58/U) for the lead-in. It's easy to find pre-assembled in various lengths on the web. 25' lengths are common.

Location and orientation are important. I'd suggest on the main floor. Is there a closet there you could use?

Proximity to a m>Hi Dave,

I'm not sure how you got the wrong impression. The web page for the antenna spells it out (I have now added some emphasis.) and, IIRC, I covered this in one of my detailed responses to your questions.

Using the 75-ohm F connectors is probably OK but buying preassembled cables is likely to give better connections. You'll see some loss with each less than optimal choice. I don't know the magnitude of the loss from the cable mismatch.

Cable TV needs more bandwidth than we need here. The X-10 signal is 310MHz AM with rather narrow bandwidth.

"Michael G." wrote:

The last line of the initial paragraph was there already. I merely underlined it. I did add some labels to the picture to clarify this and avoid future confusion.

If you review this thread I think you'll find where you asked specifically about the phasing line and lead-in. I answered both questions with lengthy explanations.

Give it a shot.

Since you'll need to replace one or the other, the best approach is to use

50 ohm BNC on the cable.

The loss per foot is minimal.

One thing that might explain why you initially had better range than you have now. A poorly done connection on the cable/connector might have been OK initially but shorted out later.

I had some>Thanks Dave!

Great. Thanks for the tips! And yes, you did mention the RG6 earlier. Sorry! I swear, it's not on my hardcopy of your webpage! Very weird!!

I will use my RG58 cable, cut it to size, throw on the BNC connectors, and put the antenna on my main level, next to the other tranceivers!

We'll see what happens!

Thanks!!

.....I officially give up!!...

I am caving in. Throwing in the towel.

I will buy another simple transceiver module.

I rechecked all my connections. Made a nice eggbeater shape. Used the proper wires. Attached a 100" cord to place the antenna on my main level, in between two other transceivers.

Yet again, terrible reception.

After hours of work, I think it's time to give up.

This CM15A is terrible.

The irony is that I was getting my best reception attaching an old circular TV (FM?) antenna to it.

Since then, with my 16 Gauge antenna loops, my phasing wire, my BNC Connectors, and everything else..

The reception has just been terrible.

I think it's time to consider all this a sunk cost, and I'll purchase another transceiver for my third house code.

If I try any harder, I think I'll have a stroke.

Thank you Dave for all your help!!!!!!!

Stupid X10 piece of garbage. How they can sell such a thing, I do not know!

Mike

Hi guys,

Dave, you are absolutely correct.

I take full responsibility for this thing not working. I bet all it takes is one lousy connection/solder to ruin it, and lo and behold, I probably have 4 poorly soldered connections!

Another problem is, of course, the remotes I am transmitting with. The four-battery HR12A palmpads work from every single room in the house, and probably down the street, too.

It's those thin remotes that are causing me all the problems.

If any of you electronics guys lived in Montreal, I'd buy you some pizza and beer to come over here and help my put together a great antenna, with the amplifier, with excellent connections!

I did recently switch my CM-15A module to a newer one, with updated firmware (on the advice of X-10). I wonder if (perhaps) this new one truly has a problem. My eggbeater WAS working quite well a few weeks ago.

....Are there any Montrealers out there?!?!

Although I will purchase another $10.00 transceiver, I'm still open-minded!

Thanks again!

Mike

have you read the solutions that people are using - in the homeseer.com user forum? Kind of sounds like your'e not following basic RF antenna design concepts. You can't just throw any old wire on and expect improvement. Anyway, lots of folks have put on better antennas and elevated the unit (to the attic) and run long serial cable to the PC.

"stevech" wrote

I'll bet that moving the unit to a central location and using a long serial cable is probably the best *bang* for the buck.

-- Bobby G.

You'd lose your ante.

I'm afraid I have no more advice. I have had excellent results with this antenna with the BX24-AHT, MR26A and CM15A. I've heard from several others who have had excellent results with this antenna. You are the only person to report poor results.

This is usually a project that takes a few hours. You have drug it out over a few months. At almost every juncture, instead of following recommendations, you have made less than optimal choices.

Still, almost anything gives a significant improvement over the original antenna so your poor results may indicate some fundamental problem with your implementation or (less likely) a defective or badly tuned RF receiver module.

FWIW, I think the hardware used in the CM15A is excellent.

You can buy a 315MHz superregenerative receiver from Mouser for under $5 (509-RCR-315-RP). It will not fit the hole pattern of the exist> ....I officially give up!!...

I lost her in 1981! :-)

Well, I'd certainly have to defer to your deep knowledge in this area, but IIRC, the OP's not the only poster that has tried antenna modifications that failed. I have some dead TM751s that were sacrificed to the antenna gods in the same pursuit. I wish I had tried relocating them centrally before I hacked them up since fine-tuning antenna and unit placement seemed to solve most of the problems I was having. Ironically, it was your messages about reducing endless dims that led me to the solution to my RF range problem.

Has an interesting (although limited) poll on the success of antenna mods.

There are also lots of messages and photos that are of interest. Here's someone else, who found, as I did, that high and horizontal were the two most important things to consider:

"While digging deep into some other homeautomation boards, I found One more tip for everyone to try! I can't remember where I read it but one person setup their module (think It was a TM751,someone else used a cm15a) as high in the house as they could and had the antena horizontal This improved everyones reception that posted. One poster stated they could recieve signals from a palm pad anywhere on their 3/4 acre lot. So why not try it whith the cm15a set it horizonal with the antena pointed away from the unit also in a horizonal postion and as high as it can be mounted in the house."

In terms of simplicity, lowest cost and easiest reversability, trying to locate the transceiver in the best place possible still seems a good, safe bet for the average X-10 enthusiast. When I mounted mine high and horizontal, I could finally activate the porch lights from the driveway, something the little keychain remote could never do before.

-- Bobby G.

Mike,

I'd offer to check out your CM15A but the Canadian postal authorities have made it nearly impossible to send a package to Canada from the USA. If the address is not formatted in accordance with their exact specifications, they will not deliver it.

Did you exchange your orig>Hi guys,

Thanks for the tips, Robert.

I will check out that site.

Dave, I have stuff shipped here all the time from ebay. This month alone: Three books, GPS device (bluetooth!), 2 line cordless phone, cell phone casing, universal keychain remote... and absolutely nothing has been held up at the border, much less not been delivered.

Our addressing conventions are the same as in the US. First Name Last Name Civic Number + Street City, Province, ZIP

I'd lllllove to ship you my TenTec board and a few bucks if you would be kind enough to help me with the the assembly. For comic relief, I could even send you my current antenna assembly!! (Actually, no, I'd be too embarressed. My soldering job on the TenTec amp would be bad enough!

That would be neat! Then I could boast that my antenna was built by the Antenna King himself!!

I can even pay you in X10 modules, if you want! :) I have several extras here! (How could I resist those 4-for-1 offers??)

One item of note... on my current transceivers, I did change the antennas a few years back. I just put on slightly longer ones (still metal telescoping ones - $2.00 at the local electronics store).

For me, I have to put them at 45 degrees. If they are straight up, they don't work as well.

I have two on my main level (as I have mentioned), and I could use EVERY controller (keychain/slimline/palmpad/credit card) from every inch of the house. Even the Active Eyes tucked up away in the walk-in closets fire perfectly every time.

To answer your question, I did buy a new CM15A and returned the old one. The guy from X10 said that this new one (with the newer date code on back) is more reliable.

Looking forward to your reply!

Mike