N:Vision CFL's

I think that assessing the effect of power factor -- like so many other topics in the CFL discussion -- is one that is better understood looking at where the technology is going than where it has been at least.

Projecting based on a projection of a projection of a projection (Mandated use of CFLs in the future --> Power factors in the future --> "sandbagging"

--> Electrical rates in the future) is trying to push a wet noodle.

In this usenet discussion of N:vision CFLs sold at Home Depot, it has been concluded that a long list of previous issues with CFLs have been sufficiently resolved for these CFLs to find widespread acceptance.

I started this extended discussion by introducing the n:vision lamps rather than some others because the price was such ($1.70-$2 each) that even the most persistent critics would probably not cavil about price and warranties (9 years).

There are of course, higher priced CFLs with even better specifications and performance -- They just haven't reached the price point of the n:vision CFLs.

For example, of the 20watt (75-watt equivalent) 2700K Technical Consumer Products (TCP) SpringLamp I introduced earlier the N:Vision CFL's discussion shows this interesting data:

PF >.90 THD .90 is impressive compared to the old data (the very worst to be found anywhere, I 'spect) that Dave chooses to cite above.

The power factor that I actually measured (using a kilowatt meter) ranged from 0.94-0.97 (!)

Similarly, the very fact that a distortion figure is listed on the package, and in TCP's technical data

indicates that at least this manufacturer is paying attention to that parameter.

Distortion and noise are parameters that is directly related to home automation because they are important in determining how "friendly" to X-10. INSTEON and other PLC technologies fluorescent lamps are or are not.

I presume that the 0.33 figure cited is 33% which is substantially less than the $150 cited for many other TCP CFL products.

I am out of time to do much more with the topic of CFLs until May.

Marc Marc_F_Hult

Measurements that I previously posted indicate that the n:vision nominal 60 watt lamps apparently put out _more_ light than the nominal 60-watt lamp that they replace.

"they buzzed"?

Since my experience with about 17 n:vision CFL to date is that _none_ buzz unless provoked by a dimmer, I decided to see why there was a direct conflict between what Don Klipstein is stated has having written and what I have experienced. I've read Don's pages and posts for ~5 years and what he has written has always struck me as reliable.

Dave doesn't provide a url, so here is one of them

At Don's site I discovered that he actually wrote 'Beware that a 30 watt "120 watt equivalent" one in my experience has a slight buzzing sound, although lower wattages do not have this problem.'

and:

"It is to be noted that lower wattages from 23 watts on down do not buzz at all in my experience. "

And elsewhere where he also wrote that larger ones buzzed, he states that "those that have gained Energy Star approval may have corrected any buzzing sound problems and sites the models.

And ABIR, all the en:vision CFLs I saw, and all that I bought, have Energy Star approval.

So it seems that Dave's characterization of the findings that "they buzz" is flat-out false with respect to the 120-watt-equivalents or less and out-dated with respect to the larger lamps.

And that a un-biased reporting of what Don Klipstein actually wrote would have avoided any confusion.

...Marc Marc_F_Hult

One of the things that I confirmed from a reading of this ST application note is that the power factor (PF) problem is one that has identified engineering solutions.

Something that at least one manufacturer has already implemented.

For example, of the 20 watt (75-watt equivalent) 2700K Technical Consumer Products (TCP) SpringLamp I introduced earlier the N:Vision CFL's discussion has a rated power factor of " >.90

The power factor that I actually measured (using a kilowatt meter) ranged from 0.94-0.97.

So the problem would seem to have been solved already.

... Marc Marc_F_Hult

Measurements that I previously posted indicate that the n:vision nominal 60 watt lamps apparently put out _more_ light than the nominal 60-watt lamp that they replace.

"they buzzed"?

Since my experience with about 17 n:vision CFL to date is that _none_ buzz unless provoked by a dimmer, I decided to see why there was a direct conflict between what Don Klipstein is stated has having written and what I have experienced. I've read Don's pages and posts for ~5 years and what he has written has always struck me as reliable.

Dave doesn't provide a url, so here is one of them

At Don's site I discovered that he actually wrote 'Beware that a 30 watt "120 watt equivalent" one in my experience has a slight buzzing sound, although lower wattages do not have this problem.'

and:

"It is to be noted that lower wattages from 23 watts on down do not buzz at all in my experience. "

And elsewhere where he also wrote that larger ones buzzed, he states that "those that have gained Energy Star approval may have corrected any buzzing sound problems and sites the models.

And ABIR, all the en:vision CFLs I saw, and all that I bought, have Energy Star approval.

So it seems that Dave's characterization of the findings that "they buzz" is flat-out false with respect to the 100-watt-equivalents or less and out-dated with respect to the larger lamps.

And that a un-biased reporting by Dave of what Don Klipstein actually wrote would have avoided any confusion.

...Marc Marc_F_Hult

While the article has nothing to say about how it will handle PDFs, this may be of interest.

snipped-for-privacy@yahoogroups.com

Thanks for the citation. Interesting to note that is was developed by a blind man for blind people. The article also notes that IBM estimates that over 160 million blind and partially-sighted people around the world would benefit from this a development.

There was a "golden age" of personal computing for the blind back when the world was DOS and text based. Everything followed in logical order and screen readers didn't have to do very much more than parse a simple ASCII text stream. The jump to a GUI was a critical step in making PC's available to the masses, but ever since then, the sight-impaired have been getting a rough-than-usual ride trying to make sense of the ever-increasing clutter of most web page designs.

Adobe, MS and others have been hard at work on this issue. After all, it will only be a few years before all the baby boomers who have grown up with PCs grow old with them. Perhaps if my own sight wasn't degrading so quickly I'd be less prickly about sight-impairment issues. My apologies to the group.

-- Bobby G.

I tried the N:Vision bulbs in some indoor locations where we still have paddle style WS467's. Both the 23W and the 19W caused the switch itself to hum rather loudly, just like the front porch switch does. As I dimmed the bulbs via UR24A remote, the buzzing sound at the switch changed markedly. I stopped testing at that point because I didn't want to damage the switch in any way. It's in a problem box with short pigtails.

On the positive side, the 23W floodlight bulb which HAD been turning itself off within seconds of being turned off no longer exhibits that behavior in a new lamp fixture. I am not exactly sure *why* that's happening, but I'll try to figure it out.

Using incandescents in the few rooms that have overhead fixtures isn't a big problem. Those lamps flash when there's an alarm so it's probably best that they are tungsten. They aren't used for general illumination much, so it's not a big deal.

When I find time, I am going to take some screw sockets and new wall switches and test them on a bench so as not to destroy or damage any in-wall switches. The one I tried most recently really made some unusual buzzing noises during the dimming process.

-- Bobby G.