Whats to say they could not try and hack their way into administrator level privlege, once they disconnected from the office network. Microsoft Windows has been known for having security holes in it.
Rather than do that, why not just build a big Faraday cage inside your building, so that mobile computers cannot communicate with any wireless access points on the outside.
I read that some schools in England are considering that for their exam halls, with the problem of high-tech cheating. Using a Faraday cage might eliminate the problems that "visiting" computers can have.
LOL, there are a LOT cheaper ways to block WI-FI, and it doesn't take a large investment. Charles, please go back to school, this time learn something current, like new in the last 5 years.
We fired people for that! Blank/erased logs on the local box? Blank history on the local browser? Erased Chache on the same box? Check the log on the firewall!
-- Back then we had a policy of "Allow everything" --
--> The firewall logs showed that this induvidual was accessing kiddy p*rn! He got three warnings :
-The first, the only and the last warning! :-)
--> pack up and leave!
--> we check the log a bit better now! we changed the policy on what we tolerate!
Thre are, but not exact;y legal. The only other way to do it would be to use a jamming device, but those are illegal in the United States.
If, however, they have managed to connect to the any citywide Wi-Fi network (if your city has one), your firewall logs would show nothing. There are citiywide networks, both commercial and city-operated, showing up. If they connect to one of those, then it would be the wISP that would be carrying the traffic instead of the firewall. Using Evidence Eliminator, BC-Wipe, Killdisk, or a similar utility will wipe out any event logs that any version of Windows NT or XP may be keeping on the local machine. With a high-gain antenna, they could sign onto any wISP they subscribe to, and it wold be thier ISP handling the traffic instead of your firewall. There are also 3G and 4G cellular phone services that also act as a wISP.
An no one would _ever_ notice that
Likewise, no one would EVER EVEN GUESS what that 24 inch dish was doing pointing out the window. You're believing to many TV commercials. You know, Gillette is going to be coming out with a razor with eight blades to give an even closer shave.
Old guy
I realize that 15 years ago is a terribly long time - but 802.11 wireless wasn't _available_ at that time (there was some experimental gear in the
915 MHz band used for point-to-point links, but quite rare, and the performance was comparable to dual ISDN - ever work with that?). Or did you forget the fact that your "instructor" didn't mention wireless?Charles - you completely miss the whole _concept_ - why am I not surprised?
Leythos, that would be a complete waste of time. We've been trying to tell him to study something current, but he doesn't have _any_ desire to try. It might be due to his reading problem - he completely missed the fact that I discussed wireless up-thread in two places, but this occurs constantly with his "replies". And actually, I think he's been dis-illusioned by the "computer training" he received in the past. Every time he tries to parrot something he thought he remembered, people are laughing and telling him that's not the way it works.
Old guy
KillDisk, DriveSweeper, and EE all erase data to the point where even forensic equipment used by law enforcement cannot recover data. These programs have actually become the bane of law enforcement.
You would not need a 24-inch dish. With a city-wide WiFi network, you could connect using much smaller high-gain antennae that could do the job. You could use a Pringle can antenna, or a SuperCantenna, either of which could easily be hidden inside a desk drawer, so nobody would see anything. Some systems will even use repeaters mounted in lightpoles. So, if your office window has a view to any lightpoles or traffic lights on the street below, you could point your Pringle Can, SuperCantenna, etc, at the nearby lightpole, and connect to the WiFi network. Some citywide WiFi systems are planned with repeaters mounted atop lightpoles and traffic lights and/or inside red-light cameras. And depending on how string the signal is, a high-gain antenna could be hidden inside a desk drawer. Then there is still the other issue of 3G and 4G cell phones, that come with unlimited wirless internet plans. The 4G systems that are planned will have, unlimited plans, for abour $100/month, that will have 4 megabits download and 1 megabit upload. Just plug the computer in and your are good to go. With mobiles getting smaller, one could be hidden inside a desk drawer quite easily. I have a mobile/MP3 player combo that is no bigger than a small pocket calculator, and could be hidden in a desk drawer quite easily.
And no one would EVER notice the squeaky clean files. I bet you still don't know how your mummy knew it was you who raided the cookie jar, or how the cops can identify drunk drivers from a half mile away.
Yes, but the policy doesn't give a flying f..k about what law enforcement can and can not do - but you don't understand that. Mess with the box, and you're history, with a interesting hole on your employement record.
You have the same reading comprehension problem as the other troll. I wrote that using a 36 inch (91cm - about 23.3 dBi) dish, I can detect _two_ access points - they're in a residential neighborhood and are probably home systems. Without using the dish, we can't even detect those, as the signals are that weak. But these words don't fit your imaginary scenario, and therefore you can't seem to see them. None the less, here they are again: NO EXTERNAL ACCESS POINTS WITHIN REACH.
Four problems with your imagined setup: 1. NO ACCESS POINTS WITHIN RANGE.
See above. Of the facilities in North America, Europe, South America and Japan that I've visited, only the sales offices have even a hint of wireless coverage, and guess what - they aren't on the company network. All of the facilities that are on the network do not have wireless access. I know that must seem terribly old fashioned to you, but no one cares about your imaginary world.
No cell phones. Isn't it _terrible_ ???
right out the door. We have RF monitors, remember? Then there is that company policy that says ''users don't mess with the hardware''.
Funny thing is, they radiate RF energy - I bet you are sure that no one would ever have a CLUE about that. Mainly because you don't have the clue either. Maybe if you talk to your Hewlett Packard sales rep, and ask him to demo a spectrum analyzer...
Old guy
Then there is the old say "Money talks, bullshit walks". That "hole" in your employment record can be "fixed" for the right amount of money. If you are willing to pay someone off enough money, that "hole" will never show up when future employers check up on you. I know this, becuase one distant cousin of mine, in the States, did that once. She had a rich grand-daddy who was more than willing to put up the cost to get her out of a jam. He loved her to the point where he was wiling to do that. As a result no employers will ever find out she was ever fired for violating Acceptable Use Policy. Its all a matter of how much money you have, and how much you are willing to pay to keep it from showing up in future pre-employment backgrond checks. Any pre-employment check now will come back that she was downsized. Money talks!!!! Bullshit walks!!!!! What an future empoyer would see in a background check all depends on much money you are will to throw at the "hole" in your emplyment record.
First, you're wrong. Try and apply for a job with my company or any company that really cares or gets audited and you'll find that all references are checked, all histories are checked, etc... Your hole Fix would be caught easily.
As for "bs walks" it seems you really do walk, but everything you do causes you to trip all over yourself as you've not presented anything that shows you know anything about what you are talking about.
So far, everything you've presented is unethical, not to mention that it can call be detected easily, and you just keep trying to come up with more BS.
I dont see how, if the records are changed. What happened in this case was records were changed for the right amount of money. Any checks of references for futur employers will not turn up anything, becuase the records were changed. Anyone who punches up her record at her former employer will not turn up anything out of the ordinary. How in the HELL are any refereence checks going to find anything if the records have been changed. Sometimes when your future is at stake, you may have to do something like that to get out of a jam. Somtomes you have to do what you have to do, even if it is not always ethical. If this case, Grand-dad did what he had to do. I feel he was justified in doing what he did. He was thinking of his granddaughters future when he did that. Becuase that record was changed, even the most throrough background checks by any future employer will merely say she was downszied, becuase the records were changed in the computer to say so. So I dont see HOW her current or any future employers are ever going to find out, if the records of being fired for violating intenet acceptable use policy have been destroyed. Grand-dads money ensured that nothing will EVER show up in even the most rigorous and thorough of backgrond checks. Once again, MONEY TALKS!!!
There was/is no city wide WiFi here (only planed). At that point the offender was on wired connections with no way for other connection. What gave it away where the EMPTY history and EMPTY logs! Other people using the same computer noticed that after one certain user all history war -- gone! Every time he used it he erased the history, cache and whatnot to try to hide what he was doing! That was why we started looking at the logs on the firewall ... He did not even know that there was another computer/firewall/router/... inwolved.
If that individual would have used his own computer on his own line, we would have not known.
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I have been working in high security buildings. - Rules: - NO cameras - NO radio - NO tape recorders of ANY kind - NO electronic gadgets/toys of ANY kind - NO magnetic media of ANY kind --> leave your credit cards in a locker! - NO outside pagers/beepers - NO cellphones - NO wireless phones - NO computers/Laptops ... - ALL briefcases, bags, boxes ... WILL be hand inspected! - DON'T bring any paper in or out without written permission! - if possible leave your coat, jacket ... in your locker.
- ANY break of those rules was a reason for IMMEDIATE termination AND prossecution!
Did i mention that all windows from the ground up to the third floor are bullet proof? That means you cannot open any window! All doors had access controll with badges and pin code. We where also aware that somebody could be listening on the phones.
That was from about 1980 until 1995. I don't think that they relaxed the rules :-)
Rudy
---------------------
I dont know you could prosecute them for, but even so, you could avoid prosecution by getting out of town before anyone came to arrest you. Just head for the airport, get on a plane and get the hell OUT of the country. And any warrants for your arrest are computerised and can be erased. All you would have to do is BREAK IN to the computers ERASE the warrants for your arrest, then that would be the END of it. I know about hacking into computers, becuiase I DID that when I was
17, to get my parents out of a jam. What happened was that in shop class, I put some kind of strange setting on a wood-smoothing machine that totally ruined it, so I borrowed a friednds portable PC, and accoustic coupler he had, and then BROKE IN to the school's computer network from an off-campus pay phone and ERASED the $2,582 bill. My parents never got the bill and never had to pay it becuase I erased it from my record. I just simply altered the books to say that debt was paid. To cover my tracks, I erase all the logs, so that they would not know what happened. By using a pay phone in a nearby strip mall, I made myself uidentfifable. With the logs erased, they could not figure out what was done. They knew something was up, and send out a form letter wiht the next grade report advising parents to keep an eye on their children's records becuase "sophisticated hackers or hacker" had broken into the school's computer network, and that they could not identify who.
You seem to have a problem understanding security! In that building, you cannot get in OR out with ANYTHING forbidden! When in doubt, they stop you in a secure area, until they are sure that you are "clean"! Or in the simple case of a badge fogotten at home: - Good morning mister xxx. So you have NO badge? NO other ID? - Somebody from the inside has to come and vouch for you. This Person has to be on a special list. This list is NOT on a computer! - Security does not care if you would have to go home and get your wallet. Hey, they have to protect the building and the content, If you miss work because of this, tough cookie!
Everybody who works in those buildings has to sign a lot of forms about secrecy, secrets and security. We also had to give permission for yearly background checks (local to federal level!). Anything "funny", and you have to explain.
They had NO dial-up phone lines comming in (to computers). (Also no DSL or other services) All modem lines to the outside have been (and still are) heavy encrypted.
Rudy
P.S. Before you do more confessions, read up on: US Code TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 47 > § 1030
--> § 1030. Fraud and related activity in connection with computers
Other countries have similar stuff!
And you are trying to sling it quite deep. You know nothing of technical issues, and you know even less about how employment verification works. Kindly take your useless whining over to alt.clueless.newbie.whine.whine.whine where someone may care. Hmm, on the other hand, a more appropriate group might be alt.fantasy.charlesnewman which I found while looking for alt.fantasy.internetworking.for.braindead.hamsters which would be even more appropriate for you.
And you _still_ don't know how to read.
In your post "Corporate firewall location" you moan about not understanding how company networks might be configured. Try reading RFC1180, which is available all over the web - who knows, you might even notice the fundamental concept you are missing.
Old guy
Just three words:
Statute of Limitations
This was many years ago, and the stature of limitations has long since expired on that. Second, I was a JUVENILE at the time.
X-No-Archive: Yes
Moe Trin wrote:
Well, if you got there, dont listen to the peson who started that group, because I am NOT Chuckie. This is why I have to turn on the X-No-Archive on every post I make, beucase this guy is now chasing all over Usenet now. He found me on the figure skating groups, he found me in the travel groups, so I now use X-No-Archive to hide from him. That is why I use X-No-Archive on nearly every post I make now (unless I forget to do so). While it is quite obvious with Google that I use it, when nym.lalias.net is running, that service will let me hide it in the headers to where the average user will not know that X-No-Archive has been turned on. Being accused of being Chuckie, and vice versa goes all the way back to 1994, and what became known as the "Great Flamewar of '94". The Tonya/Nancy scandal of that year precipitated a flamewar that, as one person described it, "could hardly be matched by a school of pirhrana swarming a cow". This flamewar was the KING of flamewars, as both sidees on that issue had a no-holds-barred flame-fest that lasted for months. Chuckie was one of a few people heavily invoved in that flamewar, and may have used a few Penet addresses at the time, so virtually any anonymous post has been attributed to him, so some people will chase me all around the Net accusing me of being Chuckie when I am NOT. Hence, the use of X-No-Archive, so that latest "WIley Coyote", as it were, will have a harder time finding me using Google, since Google trashes articles with X-No-Archive in then after 6 days. If the person who is chasing me now all over the newsgroups does not find my posts on here within 6 days of them being posted, Google will not show the posts. So now you see what I have to invoke X-No-Archve, so this one guy will not find me and really turn this into a flamewar.
Keep believing that it works, there is also a lot of land for sale south of Florida.
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