Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!

> > > > For all else who are interested, the pseudo-generic name for what I am > > looking for is "SoftAP". > > > Google it, and much information will come forth. > > I appears that the complete package is Zyxel G200 series: > >
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BUYER BEWARE:

Zyxel seems to be engaged in deliberate false-advertising to move products known to be incompatible with Vista in some respects.

I bought the Zyxel AG-225H and was extremely disappointed today that the Access Point feature will not run on Vista.

The following page:

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=2E..reads:

"the Software Access Point feature that is included in each and every AG-225H."

=2E..it also reads:

"Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box" "Microsoft Vista is the next big operating system change users have to contend with coming out of Microsoft in 2007. Don=92t be afraid of your new AG-225H becoming obsolete lagging behind your computer OS upgrades"

I was definitely afraid of no Vista support for my Access Point dongle, so I spent over an hour carefully searching the web to make sure that the Access Point device I chose supported Vista. I chose the AG-225H specifically because it mentioned "Microsoft Vista Support Out Of The Box."

If you try to use this device with Vista, the Software Access Point feature not only will not work, it will not install. AT ALL. This is not a bug. It is deliberate. The engineers have not written any GUI software for Vista. Zero. If the installation CD detects that the operating system on which it is being installed is Windows Vista, it will install the device driver only, and completely block installation of any other software, including the Access Point software.

I spent 30 minutes on the phone today with a Zyxel representative and his manager arguing about whether a rational, moderately intelligent person reading the page at the link above would get the impression that the device is Vista-ready, meaning not only will it be useable as a normal Wi-Fi roaming dongle, but will also be useable as an Access Point, which is the only reason I bought it. The representative I spoke with, and his manager, staunchly denied that they are responsible for any wrong-doing or confusion that might have arisen, and faulted me [an electrical/software engineer that programs in Windows and network devices in particular] for "misinterpreting their clearly-written presentation."

To prove that they were not at fault, the representative told me to go to the "Support and Downloads" locati Q:"When I install my ZyXEL Client Adapter, I can=92t use the bundled Utility that controls the adapter. Is this normal? " A:"Currently, Vista is not supported on any of ZyXEL=92s Client Adapters however this does not mean that they will not work on Windows Vista! Using the step by step setup process outlined on this webpage, you can install any of our client adapters onto your Windows Vista OS PC. Please remember that the Utility used to configure and control the Client Adapter will be the Windows Zero Config Utility within Windows Vista."

What this means, in English, is that the Access Point feature *WILL NOT WORK* on Vista. NOT AT ALL. Note how they call the Access Point software the "Utility", not "Access Point Software".

I then asked, "Isn't the Support & Downloads area of a company's web- site typically visited by customers *after* they have already purchased the product?" He said "No, it is clearly written there, and you could have excercised some initiative and looked at that page and seen that the Access Point feature was not supported by Vista."

I then said, "But I was mislead by the page that describes the product. Why do you not simply put an asterisk next to the 'Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box' blurb on the product description page to say that Vista support does not include the Access Point feature? After all, the only reason I bought your product is so I could use the Acess Point feature on Vista." He said, "We will consider that in the future."

I noticed that too many questions on the FAQ page seemed to indicate that I was not the only person who inferred that "Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box" meant that the Access Point feature would work on Vista, so I asked the manager..."Certainly there are other people who where duped by this page...I cannot be the only person who thought that the Access Point feature would work on Vista only to find out that it doesn't?" he said, "Yes, you're the only person." I said, "Are you sure? I am not an idiot...I know how to read, I'm not lazy, this simply doesn't make sense." He said, "No,..no..you're the only one."

I was about to ask if I could return the device and get my money back until I read the following FAQ not far from the other FAQ:

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Q: "Do you have an exchange program for customers that upgrade their PC=92s to Windows Vista only to find out that the ZyXEL product they are using does NOT support Windows Vista?" A: "Unfortunately the 2 Year ZyXEL Warranty program does NOT include exchanges if the product is not Micosoft Vista supported. The supported operating systems are dependent on the time of which the product was developed. Although ZyXEL tries our best to make sure that all products will be Microsoft Windows Vista certified, sometimes a replacement product will shift resources from one product to another."

Liar.

This company certainly knows how to make first impressions.

[NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. I will likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of principle. What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise) that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be used under Windows Vista.]

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Zyxel Customer Support In USA: (800) 978-7222

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Reply to
Le Chaud Lapin
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Under Specifications

System Requirement

  • Notebook or PC with the Pentium II o 300 MHz or compatible above o Minimum 32MB RAM (64MB Recommended) o A minimum of 20MB available hard disk space o A CD ROM drive o USB Type A slot (V2.0/V1.1 Comparable) o Microsoft Windows XP/2000

No mention of Vista

Reply to
LR

Zyxel Vista Support

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Reply to
LR

This link

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is the main link for the product description page.

It has "Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box" written in bold letters.

I think that counts as a "mention of Vista".

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Reply to
Le Chaud Lapin

Apparently you did not read my OP. In it, I placed that link already.

Here, let's take two paragraphs, bout written by Zyxel, and place them next to ecah other to see if it becomes clear:

First, the link that you put above reads:

Q:"When I install my ZyXEL Client Adapter, I can=92t use the bundled Utility that controls the adapter. Is this normal? " A:"Currently, Vista is not supported on any of ZyXEL=92s Client Adapters however this does not mean that they will not work on Windows Vista! Using the step by step setup process outlined on this webpage, you can install any of our client adapters onto your Windows Vista OS PC. Please remember that the Utility used to configure and control the Client Adapter will be the Windows Zero Config Utility within Windows Vista."

And now, the link for the AG-225H

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reads:

"Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box" "Microsoft Vista is the next big operating system change users have to contend with coming out of Microsoft in 2007. Don=92t be afraid of your new AG-225H becoming obsolete lagging behind your computer OS upgrades."

So, quick question: After reading this last paragraph, should I expect Vista support or not? This last paragraph, which is on the main page for the product, indicates that I should, even though it does not. The other paragraph is in the product support section.

If I buy even a $40,000 vehicle, I do not go to the car manufacturers web site to look at the product support section to see if the marketing materials about its features were dishonest. That would not make sense.

If a company says that their product has Vista support on the main description page of the product, then, in my mind, there should be Vista support for that product. If not, then they should not write on it, "Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box".

One of five key tests of whether this constitutes false advertising, as outlined by US DOC and other laws , is whether a majority of people, upon seeing on main description page,

"Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box".

would be lead to believe that there is Vista support for the product.

If so, then this is false advertising.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Reply to
Le Chaud Lapin

Evidently you cannot be bothered to read the posted links as the one you posted and the one I posted are not the same, there are no FAQ's on the link I posted and it clearly states that the "Vista Utility" is not supported.

Reply to
LR

That link also includes the specification page which you evidently did not read. If in your original post you had said that you required the device to work in Vista rather than just "Windows" I would have advised that there was a good chance it would not work. I got the G-202 as part of a package deal and as the "spec" says works in XP, with limitations on encryption, however I downloaded the Vista Utility to my Vista "play" machine and the Vista Utility does not contain the "SoftAP" function and I would think this applies to all their Vista Utilities. If you wish to find a system that works in Vista you would stand a better chance with the Ralink Chipsets. Check the release notes:-

Reply to
LR

Given that one of the few distinguishing features claimed by the AG-225H is that it can work as a Softwware Access Point, and given that it is obvious from the main page for this product that customers are worried about Vista support, what would be wrong with Zyxel simply putting an asterisk next to the blurb that reads "Microsoft Vista Support Out Of The Box!" that indicates to customer that "Software Access Point feature will not work on Vista."

That way, any customer who comes across the page, after searching specifically for a dongle that has software access point feature and Vista support, seeing "Software Access Point" and "Microsoft Vista Support Out Of The Box!" on the same page, within a few paragraphs of each other, will not be mislead into thinking that the Software Access Point feature is supported on Vista.

That's what happened in my case. I googled SoftAP Vista dongle. Zyxel came up. I went to the main product page, and there it was, with no qualifications.

I did not go to the product support page since I had not yet had a product that needed supporting.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Reply to
Le Chaud Lapin

TLDR

Quit whinging about it and move on.

Reply to
Bill Kearney

No one asked your opinion.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Reply to
Le Chaud Lapin

Actually, as OP in this thread, _YOU_ most definitely did. You might not like contrary opinions but you invited them.

Beggars cannot be choosers, hot [drunk] rabbit. Nor can you make a comment and expect others to listen without listening to their comments in turn.

-- Robert

Reply to
Robert Redelmeier

in part:

On the contrary, I very much believe in freedom of speech, in all forms. ;)

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Reply to
Le Chaud Lapin

Out of interest, who asked yours?

And FYI, this is usenet, nor your private chatroom. You post a comment, people reply, thats how it works. Not all the replies will agree with you or be ones you like. If you don't like the replies, grow a thicker skin.

Reply to
Mark McIntyre

This comment

doesn't sounds like it though, you must admit.

Reply to
Mark McIntyre

I made the comment anticipating that someone, especially the person I made it to, would respond as you and Robert Redelmeier did.

What is remarkable is what you both say is 100% true, which means we could go back an forth indefinitely.

In essence, anything goes.

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Reply to
Le Chaud Lapin

The easiest way to determine if you want to continue an endless discussion is to ask yourself if you would be interested in reading what you're about to post. If the answer is negative, then cease, desist, and don't post. Following my own advice, some useful content:

There's been some litigation over "Vista Capable" and "Vista Ready" claims for various products that really are not.

Google should help you find other suits involving claims of false compatibility. For example, Nvidia can't seem to get it right:

If you're serious about having been grievously injured by your purchase of a Zyxel AG-225H, then I suggest you initiate or join one of the numerous class action suits. Otherwise, just return it to your vendor or sell it on eBay.

In reality, everything goes.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

I guess one should not be suprised that a few companies are trying to claim Vista-compatibility when they know that it is non-existent or partially existent. No one wants to wasted development resources on an OS that has been adopted with uncertainty.

In the case of Zyxel, it appears that the only truly Vista-compatible software is the device driver itself and the Installshield shell that does the installation, which, of course, they didn't write. The rest of the software, if I am not mistaken, is XP-only. But since NDIS 5.1 drivers will often work without modification from XP to Vista x86, my guess is that the driver was tested to see if it would work in station- only mode on Vista, and if it did, then Zyxel resolved that they would claim "Microsoft Vista Support Out Of The Box", knowing that no software was written specifically for Vista, but hoping that anyone hoping to use the the Access Point feature on Vista would not complain.

In any case, as of 2008-06-02, the US Federal Trade Commision has launched a formal investigation of Zyxel's Vista-support claims of the AG-225H, so we'll see what happens.

Your links and comments much appreciated,

-Le Chaud Lapin-

Reply to
Le Chaud Lapin

So you were trolling. And I just realised you're xposting too. Ok, plonk.

Reply to
Mark McIntyre

I thought so too, until I saw the smiley and figured it meant "all forms" included rude, misleading and/or erronious speech. Self-depracating humor is far more common in the UK and EU than in the US.

-- Robert

Reply to
Robert Redelmeier

Ooops. That was a terrible example as the class action web pile is now owned by a domain squatter and the class action suit was apparently never initiated.

I know of one company, that paid an expert to test some of their existing XP drivers for Vista compatibility. They didn't want to pay Microsoft to certify the drivers. Apparently, he did a not so wonderful job of testing, and pronounced that everything was just fine with minimal tweaks. The company announced that most of their products and drivers installed and functioned under Vista. It took about a month for the complaints to accumulate in support, along with a dramatic increase in returns, to convince marketing that perhaps something was not quite right. I haven't bothered to check if anything was actually done about it.

For entertainment value, MS labels "Vista Capable" and "Vista Premium Ready" PC's.

and various levels of Vista certification. You might wanna see if your hardware is compatible, ready, certified, blessed, or compatible: (IE6 or IE7 only). Looks like Zyxel has certified some wireless devices, but not the AG-225H.

Note that some of the model numbers are missing from the certification list. I wonder why.

Actually, that phrase is not one of the offical Microsoft labels and could very well indicate that they did their own testing.

Incidentally, if you read the phrase exactly as you wrote it, it means you can call Microsoft and get Vista support by opening the box. I don't think that's what they intended, but that's what it says. Not a very good OOBE (out of box experience).

Reference? URL? I couldn't find anything with Google.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

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