Door Bell Install Via Homerun Closet

In a word, yes. Most modern doorbells are electronic and they draw minimal amperage so the CAT5 cable will be fine.

a écrit dans le message de groupe de discussion : snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...

check with the local electrician to know if there is a minimum required wire gauge for doorbell, cause even if you use electronics one that are ok with small wire, next home owner could want to use a big doorbell that has large gong on it and it could draw much more power..

What's the use of that? The cable there is the cable that is there. The OP just wants to know if he can use it - he already said that he can not now add any heavier duty cable. What reason would he have for inquiring with electricians whether future owners could use it in different ways?

I believe Cat5 uses 24 AWG wires, good for say 0.577mA, so all four pairs could be joined to carry around 2 1/4 amps continuously and even more for briefer periods of ringing. I'd say you can run a heck of a noise maker through that, else why not operate a relay to control a bell louder than a fire station uses to call the volunteers from the fields and factories?

Tony

yup thats a good way for putting a place in fire..

lets say he twist 4 wire for one conductor and the same for another conductor, thats all right.. but with time at some jonction 3 out of 4 wire come loose and only 1 is left for the whole job.. now a short come on some part of the wirring and the the transfo is not a protected type one.. after some time heat will develop from the small wire and could eventualy provide just enough heat to start a fire in the wall..

good thing he have some fire insurance... bad thing he didn't do his wiring ok, they wont pay..

if there is a minimum gauge writen somewhere in the electrical book of his state or province, he should follow it, thats it... usingm multi wire to provide a large enough gauge is not something ok in any of the books i've read..

That is utter nonsense. Once terminated at the device none of the conductors will slip out of a bundle like that.

That is also nonsense. Insurance policies are not nullified because a homeowner makes a wiring mistake. That's a fiction told by some "professional" technicians in hopes of deterring people from doing their own work.

In the US it's almost invariably 16-gauge.

It's fairly common practice among low voltage installers though it's not the "preferred" technique.

If done by a pro, there is minimal chance that something will happen, but we have NO idea how this home owner is when working with wirring.

If a job is done out of the code, there is a BIG possibility that insurance company wont pay. They will try to pull out of any contract if you give them the chance...You know about this pretty sure, just pay your health care insurance late and your dead..

So you have the anwer... but 16 gauge or dont use that wiring.. or use what was supposed to plug there..

It is common practice, but still a no no if you have to comply to code..

on burglar alarm system, it could be ok, on a powered device without fusing , i dont think its ok..

Whether done by a paid installer or a DIY homeowner, wires twisted together under a screw terminal just don't unravel.

Wrong again. Take a look at a few homeowner's insurance policies. I have.

Apples to oranges, my friend.

The funny thing about this is that in hundreds of "professional" security systems that I took over during the 24 years I ran an alarm company, it was and is common practice to double up 22-gauge, 4-conductor wire for sirens and transformers, both of which usually call for 18-gauge wire. None of those installations ever had a fire caused by the practice.

The funny thing is that it is commn practice among professional installers -- the people you say he must hire to get the job done right.

We're talking about a low current doorbell / phone interface. The most popular brand is called "Doorbell Fon" and that unit draws very minimal current. The installation instructions don't even specify what gauge wire to use. The only current spec mentioned is for the system's output -- 25mA, which would run nicely on a single 22-gauge wire. Somehow I doubt he'll burn his house down with this. :^)

And what about the jonction in the middle of the circuit? and even under some screw if the wiring is short, the home owner can make bigger mistake that you think.

I dont know on what place on earth you live..(in fact i know where you say you live, but it must be somewhere else) cause here in Canada, if you dont install electrical stuff on par with the code, your doomed, and the insurance wont pay..

insurance and contract, both the same thing..

show me when I called for ALARM technician on this? i spoke about electrician.. your meds must be too strong...

And its not because its working on sirene and class 2 transfo with alarm, that it will be ok with a class 1 transfo with out fusing... you are mixing many thing...

Where am I talking about low voltage installers?

Yup and the next home owner will use a regular doorbell with a class 1 transfo and the place could burn down if the doorbell or the wiring get shorted...

There is no need for a junction in the middle of the circuit in this project. If there was, I would suggest the gentleman solder and cover the splice with shrink wrap. Done right there's no problem, though as I said it's really not necessary to make a mid point splice.

Under a screw? What are you talking about?

Yes, you do. You know full well I live in Florida.

I don't work in Canada but I've heard "professional" installers who work in the USA make the same bogus argument for years and it's nonsense.

I mentioned alarm technicians because that's the industry I'm in. I didn't say that you did.

I used sirens and transformers as an example to illustrate the point. Sorry if that confused you.

We are discussing a low voltage DIY project. Do you believe that an electrician is needed for all low voltage work as well?

Yeah, sure. Can I interest you in a nice bridge, too?

As allways you didnt read the OP message. in the OP message he is speaking about adding a transfo mid way of his 2 run of wire..

so there is no need to answer anything else comming from you, as allways you are talking about anything with out knowing..

Au contraire, mon ami. It was you who failed to read the OP's original message. Here is what he said.

"Couldn't I just connect the the same color e.g. (brown white/white brown) pair to the front doorbell as well as the same at the chime and do all of the cross connects in the homerun closet to complete the circuit and energize the doorbell."

There is nothing about a mid-wire splice. He wants to connect the transformer and the door station each to one end of the CAT5 cables. The other end of the cables will be connected to the controller (which he will need to locate in the "homerun closet."

You are turning a disagreement about a technical issue into personal nastiness. Feel free not to answer when I post if that suits you. Either way, you're wrong about what is being done and you're wrong about needing an electrician (or any other "professional" installer) to hook up a simple, low current device such as the OP intends.

By the way, most of the participants in this newsgroup are DIYers. Many have designed and/or installed whole-house lighting controls, security systems, HVAC automation, etc. You're not likely to get a warm reception with condescending remarks to the effect that they need an electrician to hook up a doorbell.

You forgot to had:

What I did do is run a four pair Cat5e from the fr (one from the doorbell and one from the chime go to the transformer, that will be mounted in the homerun closet.

if that is not a mid run jonction, I wonder what it is..

Nope I just posted that you didnt even read the OP and now you TRY to go away with part of his original post.. typical of you..

Never said that he HAD to use an electrician,. just pointed that he should ASK one to be sure he comply with code...

and that if he doesnt comply change the wiring and do it properly..

the one that have an agenda here is you.. go back to alarm and leave real answer to the one that know..

Had???

Right. The controller has to go in the homerun closet. The other devices are each attached to the other end of a direct cable run from there. How does this become a mid-point splice in the cable? Even if it were so (which it is not), splicing is easy.

Well, commence wondering then because it's not.

Show me where what I said was incorrect and I'll bow in utmost respect. So far it appears you either don't understand what the OP said, what I am saying, basic cabling requirements or all of the above.

To which I replied, "Nonsense!"

He's doing it properly. The only issue is whether the cable is of sufficient gauge to handle the current. Normal CAT5 will do just fine.

That's kind of rude, don't you think? At any rate, since I'm in the process of getting out of the business I've no agenda at all. Like you, I posted to offer advice to the OP. We simply disagree about what constitutes good advice.

That's just fine. Each 24 gauge conductor can carry 577 mA, so even if you used all 4 pairs it would safely carry 2.3A of current. Most doorbell x-formers are 16V AC so even if your bell used 30W (which I doubt), you're pushing 1.875A. Either way, put a 1A inline fuse in the closet just to be safe.

That's gotta be one HELL of a doorbell to need more than an AMP or so.

No. I wasn't sure what you were trying to say. However, even without the spelling and grammatical errors (which I usually ignore since English is not your primary language), you're still spouting nonsense.

I'm sure you speak perfect French but your post was nonsense all the same.

The gentleman mentioned a "key system" in the first post. If by that he meant that he originally considered connecting it to his telephones I would suggest a Doorbell Fon with a module to trigger the regular doorbell as well. OTOH, if he only wants to trigger the doorbell, he could connect a relay module. Many modern doorbells are DC operated. They draw minimal current -- typically less than 100 milliamps -- at 12 VDC. Others which still use AC current. Common doorbell transformers are rated at 10 Watts and 12 Volts. You can get them with as much as 30 Watts at 24 Volts but those are rarely used except in very large homes with multiple chimes and long wire runs. The OP gave no indication his home was exceptionally large and he said nothing about multiple chime units.

The code? What chapter and verse of which code? I don't know about Canada but most doorbell wiring in the USA is 18 gauge. Modern, low current doorbells can use 20 gauge. The OP is considering usaing CAT5, which consists of 8 strands of 22 gauge cable. Wiring that into 2 strands will more than handle the current and will give better than 18-gauge.

Lets make it simpler.

18 gauge (the stuff electricians use all over the USA) has a resistance of about 6 Ohms per 100 ft. 4 strands of 22 gauge CAT5 cable wired together will have a resistance of roughly 4 Ohms per 100 ft. In short, the CAT5 he has will be safer than 18 gauge and virtually identical to 16 gauge (which almost no one uses for doorbells). Got it?

Uh, no. There is not.

Oops. I said 12 Volts. Thanks for the correction.

It's an imaginary doorbell. :^)

Make that 6 Ohms per 1000 ft.