Do these exist: "Instant on" or very rapid start CFL???

Please trim your posts or top-post.

Thanx

Thanks again for your insights and comments Bobby. To answer your question, I do not own any 2 way X-10 devices. My X-10 devices were almost entirely light control, with some outdoor motion detector spotlights which could emit X-10 codes to turn on indoor lighting when motion was detected. I had several appliance modules to switch heavier loads, some pocket RF transmitters to remotely control things, controllers all over the place, some with built in timers / clocks, and not much more. My total investment in X-10 was, at most, a few hundred bucks. It was very easy to walk away from it financially, but I do miss the ability to control everything.

X-10 owners like us are likely to be "control freaks" to some extent, and having a system which acts randomly and erratically defies our "authority". It is frustrating to see the system mis-behave, and even more so while our significant others scoff and smirk and complain when lights begin to randomly turn on, turn off, or not light at all.......... It was extremely easy for me to eventually "pull the plug" on X-10 as my CFL and other noise environment took over control...

I had a long and happy run with X-10, and was indeed an early adopter, probably late 1970's if I had to guess up until the late 1990s for the truly useful and reliable operation. I would call that a success, and thus I had no problem taking it down. Some stuff still remains, and I occasionally look at the Insteon stuff and think about starting over again.

Then I take a deep breath and put down the Smarthome catalog and come to my senses...........

I have four of the dreaded PR511 outdoor floods. They could easily have been a large part of your problem because they can listen and talk X-10 signals and when configured to the max they can put a lot of traffic on the powerline. They are, essentially a two-way module. Mine are in a box in the basement because it turned out cheapo $10 motion detectors plugged into an appliance module worked just as well and more reliably.

Admittedly many people (I am sure we'll hear from them!) run them without a problem. But they are so remarkably configurable it's easy to believe that no two PR511 setups are the same. IIRC, you can have it send four different codes upon motion activation and four more different codes based on dusk/dawn. That's a busload of possible configurations - combine that with its unique ability to sense birds in flight (I had one hell of a problem with house wrens nesting right near the unit one spring and that's when I declared the game over and pulled them, replacing them with Home Depot standalones.

At least now I can sleep comfortably with the knowledge that wherever those damn floodlights go, trouble follows and that they had some role in your weird turn ons. The reason I dumped mine in a box is that I didn't want the lights coming on for every cat, possum, rabbit or squirrel that came near the house. The PR511's complex settings were a real problem for me since I had to climb ladders to change them.

Did you have/use a CM11A? When they were disconnected from the programming PC they could go bonkers and start sending out a flood of bogus codes. Again, some people swear by them but I mostly sweared AT mine. Replaced it with an ADI CPU-XA (which became the Ocelot) but hated the C-Max ladder logic programming so much I bought a much easier to use HomeVision controller, which owner/developer Craig Chadwick still actively supports via a very active Yahoo group.

I find maintenance and design a lot easier when most of the "action" is performed by a central CPU and rely on the Homevision controller to execute complex macros. I tap button "1" on the Maxicontroller three times to "wake up" the house and button "4" three times to put it to sleep. Both commands activate 8 different modules on different housecodes. Tapping "9 1 1" activates the 12" bell mounted on the front porch. HomeVision really "opened up" X-10 in a remarkable way, and it's got digital I/O and Dallas 1 wire sensor support.

Well, good luck with your system. Too bad we didn't meet sooner. I could have helped prolonged your X-10 agony at least another six months! (-:

-- Bobby G.

[snip]

When I tried Insteon, it was MUCH WORSE than X10. Often, a device would work the first couple of times, until I added another device. Then it would get weird. I'd never know if pressing a button would do nothing, turn the desired device on, turn another device off, or something else. It keeps behaving as it was about start working, something a lot worse than not working at all. I tried it about a dozen times, in different rooms (including one where a limited X10 system works almost perfectly). Smarthome still owes me about $90 (failed to credit returns).

That's too bad about not getting a credit. They've been OK with me, money-wise. Much of their stuff, like the solar powered CCTV camera I bought, were laughably poorly made and barely functional. Still, they survived where the Sharper Image, IIRC, didn't.

Insteon wouldn't have been the choice I would make to replace X-10 simply because of the "sole source" problem. The problem they had with their first runs of dimmer switches and relatively large loads flashing convinced me (living in a house with fragile but still serviceable cloth covered wire) I did the right thing. Torque old wiring around enough and you're asking for a lot of fishing, drilling and plaster work. Nothing I hate more than a wire breaking without enough left to even wire nut a pigtail. I'm not in a position to alpha, beta and gamma test a manufacturer's new product line. Not if I am paying for the stuff, anyway.

Zwave showed some promise but I don't hear about it much anymore. UPB seems to still be alive but nothing appears to have the market share that X-10 does or the same low price per load. Ethernet control is probably the way HA will eventually go. The wired and wireless "transport" layers are all public protocols and cheap as dirt now for 24 port hubs. Cable is mostly standard and not hard to pull, device numbers virtually unlimited, collision detection and avoidance built in.

Smarty's right. What's not to like? A lot of A/V devices are coming with Ethernet ports. Laptops come with wireless networking and I'm assuming that everything's on one or two chips now. As TV's, game systems and disc players come with networking built-in, the stoves, furnaces and washing machines of the world will follow. IIRC, you can already buy networkable refrigerators. Ethernet will probably drive out the proprietary HA protocols in a decade. It's just too ubiquitous to conquer.

-- Bobby G.

Did you remove the homebrew X-10 couplers and other devices from your system? In particular, I remember a picture of a modification to a dryer that you showed to comp.home.automation years ago via a url.

But sounds to me, based on the sparse info provided, that your INSTEON issues were caused by incorrect/conflicting programming of the individual devices rather than primarily signal problems.

There are two solution that I know of and have used to successfully install INSTEON: 1) Either be very careful, and accurate, and methodical, and take notes while manually and individually programming the devices using Smarthome's instructions, or 2) Do all the programming through an ISY controller.

For anything but a very small or toy system, I'd recommend installing an ISY despite its added cost. I have about 70? INSTEON devices at this point. In two decades of experimentation, updating and reconfiguration, I never, ever had X-10 working as dependably, or quickly, or flexibly or powerfully as INSTEON. That includes INSTEON RF vs X10 RF. Issues faced by early adopters have been resolved by SmartHome in my experience and ISY. And despite what some comp.home.automation participants post here, INSTEON is not exactly a closed proprietary system (Witness: ISY).

On alternate days I sometimes consider replacing the hard-wired Homebrew/Centralite lighting system on the first floor with INSTEON (but on the next, not ;-) The T0-D0 list keeps getting longer, not shorter).

All things INSTEON can be controlled at anytime and from any place with internet or 3G connection using my iPhone and eKeypad (

which also can also serve as the internet interface to security cameras and Elk M1G home controller.

My iPhone is always with me so I can (almost) always control most everything. No compelling need for expensive and obtrusive in-wall touch screens, PC monitors and other HA-specific hardware interfaces.

Slick as a whistle and also no unavoidable need for PC-based software such as Homeseer. But the ISY does competently and non-competitively co-exist with HS and the HS plug-in is mature enough to not be an issue.

HTH ... Marc Marc_F_Hult

[snip]

I have disconnected that well before trying Insteon.

That happened 4 years ago, and was a really unpleasant experience.

I didn't do any programming other than following THEIR (Smarthome's) instructions. IIRC, that involved pushing a button on the module and pushing one on the controller. Maybe there were other settings, but the modules were never reliable enough to try them.

I didn't know about such a device 4 years ago. I'd read about it if I had any intention of trying Insteon again.

Does "small" include 2 modules and 1 controller. That's all I connected and it still messed up.

[snip]

I have had Homeseer. It was a lot of trouble getting around their intentional limitations ("product activation" that assumes you're a criminal).

BTW, I currently have a limited X10 setup (on the side of the house where there's not too much electrical noise). It uses an Ocelot.

...

Some points for folks considering INSTEON to ponder about the information presented by Lloyd in his posts.

1) Based on his description " 2 modules and 1 controller" and "that involved pushing a button on the module and pushing one on the controller" and $90" what he was working with was entirely RF and has nothing whatsoever to do with INSTEON performance over the powerline. Nada. 2) None of the widely described issues I recall or have personally experienced had/have anything to do with the actual hardware he was using. On the contrary, my experience with the RF modules and RF controllers has been stellar. INSTANT-ON = INSTEON. Bang! 3) Lloyd writes that "It" messed up. IMO, the odds are overwhelming that he mis-programmed it. IOW, "He" messed up. Easy to do. Easy to fix if one can follow instructions exactly. And when/if one "messes up", one ****IMPORTANT *** needs to reset the modules to the factory default modules before trying to re-program. Otherwise the subsequent programming of the devices can be effectively cumulative (additive) with the resulting chaos that Lloyd describes. 4) His experience with INSTEON was four years ago, before widely described issues with _powerline_ INSTEON that emerged were diagnosed and resolved.

So it is unclear to me what parts of his description of his experience would usefully inform decisions by someone currently interested in INSTEON.

My dos centavos ... Marc

Marc_F_Hult

Oops. I wrote "Lloyd" where I should have written (and meant to write) "Mark".

Sorry... Marc