[Privacy] How do we turn off Google's (recent?) employment of cell-tower geolocation data in the Google Maps app?

Wally J · 2023-09-22T01:29:06+00:00

Does anyone here have more technical information as to how Google Maps obtains your location using cell tower data as described in this reference? *How Maps finds your current location* Maps estimates where you are from sources like: a. GPS: Maps uses satellites to know your location up to around 20 meters. When you're inside buildings or underground, the GPS is sometimes inaccurate. b. Wi-Fi: The location of nearby Wi-Fi networks helps Maps know where you are. c. Cell tower: Your connection to mobile data can be accurate up to a few thousand meters."Note the use of "mobile data" (and not "cellular data") in the above.I was always aware that Google "could" use at least four types of data 1. GPS (which, IMHO, is perfectly sufficient alone for most needs) 2. Wi-Fi (i.e., your SSID/BSSID/dBm/GPS uploaded by your rude neighbors) 3. IP address geolocation (often more to the ISP's datacenter than you) 4. Cellular tower location (these are unique - but maps are proprietary)Previously I was unaware Maps was actually _using_ cell-tower geolocation.If Google Maps is using cell-tower geolocation, how do you turn that off?Where do they get the database given they're supposedly not published by the cellular carriers (although they are open sourced widely otherwise)?Do you have a better reference on how "cellular tower geolocation" is used on Android and do you have a better reference on how to turn it off?

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Frank Slootweg 2 years ago

Yes, it's all data, but it's not all 'Mobile data'. Quite confusing, but that's how it is. I just had a similar discussion with sms (the poster), about MMS using data, but not 'Mobile data'.

The easiest to explain is probably that 'Mobile data' is data used for Internet access and gets billed (or is included in your bundle)

*seperate* from calls/SMS/MMS. Any other data is not 'Mobile data'.

Another comparison/analogy: If you have fixed broadband, every thing - TV, telephone, Internet - is 'data', but the Internet part is seperate from the internet parts.

In my mobile 'plan', I can see how much is used/charged for calls and SMS on one side and for Mobile data on the other side. If Mobile data is switched off on the phone, calls/SMS are still charged in the calls/SMS part and nothing is charged in the Mobile data part.

In short: For 'Mobile data' just read 'Mobile Internet use'.

No apology needed, none at all. It's very confusing. I just (think I) understand *this* bit. Ain't technology great! :-)

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Frank Slootweg 2 years ago

Interesting, but - as you say - only applicable to Pixels (and the odd "stock" Android phone).

For the large majority, one has to assume that Airplane mode turns off all radios, unless proven otherwise. (For example on Samsungs and my previous Huaweis.)

That's the main problem with Android, very little is 'standard'/ the_same for different brands/models, especially in this category (settings/toggles).

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Char Jackson 2 years ago

I think I'm learning that different wireless carriers possibly handle things differently. I worked at a US-based wireless telecom for about 10 years and in that ecosystem, once we moved away from circuit-switched voice to packet-switched voice, all data was data, as far as the handset was concerned. If the cellular radio was off for mobile data, it was off for *all* mobile data. Once the different kinds of data, (voice, SMS, MMS, Internet access, etc.) were inside the network, that's when various steering and billing levers were pulled. That sounds different from what you're describing.

The most interesting part of what I think you're saying is that even when Mobile Data is disabled, the cellular radio is apparently not disabled since calls/SMS are still allowed, so in your situation disabling Mobile Data is different from Airplane Mode. I wouldn't have expected that. Thanks for that.

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Frank Slootweg 2 years ago

[Lots deleted.]

Thanks for wording it so succintly! That's indeed the gist of the issue.

An interesting experiment would be for you to do the following:

Switch off 'Mobile data' (you have found where that switch is on your phone) *and* switch off Wi-Fi. Now see if you still can make or receive a phone call or/and can send or receive a SMS message.

My 'guess' is that you can still do that. If so, we've proven that the 'Mobile data' part (read: Internet access) is off / no longer in use, but the *other* data for calls and SMS is still on / in use. And that is exactly my point.

FWIW, I can't imagine it's diffferent for you and for me. AFAIK, this is world-wide technology and not location/provider/phone/etc. dependent.

BUT, of course I could be wrong. Happened before, so it's bound to happen again. :-)

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sms 2 years ago

Correct. But you won't be able to send or receive an MMS.

But remember in pre-smart phone days you could still send and receive MMS with the phone using data over AMPS, GSM, and CDMA. The carriers charged for "messaging" which included a fixed number of SMS/MMS but IIRC they did not distinguish between SMS and MMS.

The early cameras on smart phones generated files only in the hundreds of KB so the carriers probably saw no reason to charge seperately for MMS, or they had no system to do so; if your plan included 300 messages they could be SMS or MMS. Now, a single iPhone photo can now be 75MB so if you take just 13 photos of your meal you're at nearly a GB.

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Char Jackson 2 years ago

Ugh, yes. That's awful, but it's a wake-up call. I'll most definitely avoid the Mobile Data switch, as I've been doing since forever, and continue to use Airplane Mode instead, when I need specific radios to be off.

You're spot on.

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