Free Muni or other hotspot access from a sailboat??

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 19:13:31 GMT, "Stephen H. Fischer" wrote in :

Won't work for a wireless client bridge at the top of the mast.

Correct: Ethernet with Power over Ethernet. The device is a wireless client bridge, and it needs to be weatherized.

Sometimes, but a directional antenna can be useful when tied up at a dock.

Wi-Fi gear does this automatically.

What problems?

Hi, again,

Back > On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 00:03:06 -0400, "Skip Gundlach" gmail dotcom> wrote in : >

My question wasn't about a repeater - I think we've covered the ground that has it that a repeater won't do what we're trying to accomplish.

It was about your kind direction to a diagram which showed a bridge connected via ethernet cable/Cat5 to an AP, the bridge being at the top of the mast, and the AP being in the boat.

My question was to see if it made sense to have them both in the same place - a weatherproof housing with a common power supply - connected with a pigtail, rather than 60+ feet of cable. That's the configuration sold to me by the Senao.us (as compared to all the other flavors of Senao.xx) vendor, and which he repeatedly asserts will work, despite it clearly not working, while we sit together on the phone trying to make it happen. At the very end, even he thought including a router might be a useful step. Hoiwever, his promise to test it was just a way to get me off the phone, I have concluded, as that's the last I ever heard from him, despite many emails. But, I digress...

I would be - at this point, rather than just "yes, it works; out of the box is what I ordered" - *ECSTATIC* if I could make this configuration work. However and whyever, though, the rep's best efforts and mine have both failed to induce even the ability to interrogate them when they're connected, let alone see and select from stations without manual entry.

And, moving the end up to here:

Being a belt and suspenders sort of guy, I wasn't about to put something on the mast top (not a simple project to merely get it mounted, let alone properly connected, etc.) without testing it.

My original thought was to have it work on deck (functionally where all the testing has occurred, more below), and then put the guts in a plastic bucket and haul it up via halyard to demonstrate the success and improvement in signal. Actually, that's (raise per use) a recommendation of some of my correspondents for actual use, rather than having it up there all the time (weight aloft issues). I'd have to design something a great deal more stable than a bucket, but it's not out of the question, as the only times we'd use it would be at anchor or (very unlikely; marinas are out of my league other than to get to the fuel or water dock) tied up.

Back to the story, however, I did, indeed, do all my testing in a benchtop mode. From the nav desk below, connected via the supplied cat5 cable, to the unit powered with an extension cord and connected via 6" pigtail to the stick 8.5dBi antenna topsides. That was just to see if I could get the bridge to behave in a wired fashion; the vendor and I never succeeded at making them play together on the workbench.

And as I was very disappointed to discover, it (neither of the units, configured as bridge, tried consecutively in case one was defective) wouldn't work even in a wired connection mode.

Since it's been a while and you're very active with other questions, a review to say that the reason for the router was to allow it to assign addresses, where otherwise the only conversations the two units had previously had between them were about IP conflicts (no data passing, only conflict messages, regardless of computer used to test, and regardless of IP and subnet families used to isolate from any computer-originated issues). If I don't need one, I'm thrilled to have it simpler, cheaper, in the end.

moving on:

The one in the wiki isn't the same as what I have (I have the 2611 CB3 Deluxe units in breadboard form, i.e. no case, as marketed by that particular vendor) - do you feel that to be the nature of the problem (that the 2611s aren't suited to the purpose)?

Any comment on why neither unit will pass data, both crash (can't be seen or interrogated) on all flavors of dhcp setting, but otherwise are interrogatable via URL over ethernet NIC and see and can select SSIDs in the same name and values (signal and connection levels) as seen with my external Hawking desktop USB (same as mentioned in another thread you've been active in) unit?

Heh. No kidding :/))

So, to summarize:

Will it work to put the AP and Bridge in the same NEMA enclosure?

Do I need to buy some other Senao unit(s), or find the problem with the ones I have, or do some other equipment solution?

Thanks again for your patience. My apologies if I appear contentious - it's not my intent; I'm just trying to identify what I've tried with repeated failures. I'm obviously both clueless and missing something...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC

- NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

On 22 Jun 2006 10:56:32 -0700, "Skip - Working on the boat" wrote in :

The problem then are:

1. More power needed over Ethernet.
2. Second antenna needed for boat coverage, with possible interference.
3. Larger physical size.

What's actually in the box? TWO Senao units? Or Senao and something else?

A router won't help.

There are two different firmware images for the Senao 2611CB3, (1) access point, and (2) client bridge. Did you flash the client bridge image? The access point image won't work as a client bridge.

Could you connect to the Senao config interface at all over Ethernet? If not, my guess is that the network setting weren't correct.

You don't need a router, just a wireless client bridge (for starters at least). You also need a wireless access point (second device) if you want wireless on the boat, again not a router, or a router configured as an access point. But leave out that 2nd unit until you get the Senao working.

It should work, but I think you'll have better results with a newer model that supports 802.11g, not just 802.11b.

So you can connect to the config interface in the Senao over wired Ethernet? What then is the problem? You really need to take this step by step, starting only with one Senao and one computer, as listed below.

Probably, but I don't think that's a good idea.

I'd prefer a newer 802.11g unit, but you should be able to get the Senao you have working -- lots of people use it that way; e.g., . (Read that carefully.) And take it step by step:

1. Connect just one computer to one Senao client bridge (with antenna) by Ethernet cable. No other hardware. Power the Senao.
2. Flash the Senao with the latest *client bridge* firmware image.
3. Use the Senao config interface to get the Senao connected to an access point.
4. Configure the computer to use DHCP.
5. Use "IPCONFIG /RELEASE" and "IPCONFIG /RENEW" to see if DHCP then get a network address, subnet mask, gateway address (which *won't* be the Senao, since that's just a bridge), and DNS servers.

Here I am again :{))

John Navas wrote: (clip)

I'm not sure what you mean by this. As potential clarification, my tests have never included the NEMA (it never worked, so why do that step?), was powered with the wall wart provided (never worked, so why go to POE or direct power?), and only had the hyperlink stick antenna provided (well, I did also try the rubber duck provided for the AP, just to make sure I wasn't overlooking anything).

What do you mean by larger physical size? The NEMA? The box provided was larger than the original I'd asked about, as it was just the bridge part. I believe this is what I started with when I was first talking to them:

The box I presume you mean was an aluminum NEMA, just a flat square thingy which I'm not very comfortable with, as it has only a very small gasket, not a seal. However, as it didn't work as originally sent (apologies for bandwidth; story shortened below), out came the parts, and they have never been back in since.

What arrived was a 2611 and some 5V DLink or Linksys item - a router, I think, both breadboard (no case) and stacked in this NEMA. using mobo nylon standoffs to keep the two of them together but not electrically touching; the whole was velcroed to the back/bottom of the box. I complained that I'd specified 12V, he had me ship back the other and charged me the (substantial) difference for the other 2611 which arrived in due course.

I did an update on the firmware which he sent me; the senao site defaulted into korean or japanese or whatever other language is native at that level of drill-down. I'm not sure which it was that he sent me. However, I would expect that as shipped it should have worked, regardless.

(clip)

Yes. That's what is so particularly frustrating. I can do all the configuration stuff - and I did each of them in turn until I got to the dhcp setting - using the same IP and subnet families in the NIC and card. Regardless of the other 4 variables set, each time it then refused to let me communicate with it when I went to dhcp (on the card

- and if I couldn't communicate with it, it required a hard reboot [push the button; repower wasn't sufficient], which, since I'm not going to climb the mast each time to get it to talk to me, ain't gonna work).

Setting the nic to the IP and subnets used got nowhere, as did (not) setting the NIC to dhcp.

So, yes, I can talk to it all day long other than in dhcp mode. When I assign an SSID to associate with, it does so, at the same level of signal and quality as seen with my Hawking desktop unit up on deck (with an active usb extension) - which I unhook so as to not get a false positive - but won't pass data.

(clip)

Heh. No shit. At the moment I'm in a dispute resolution phase with Discovercard; I expect the 1/2 ream of documentation (literally) I provided will have them leaving the credit currently temporarily applied; whether the vendor wants it back is still open to question. I know for sure that without Discover forcing the issue he doesn't as I tried to send it back very early on in our failures, now over a year ago.

FWIW, I expect the original second unit was an AP/router I went back and looked at my invoices and found that it was a DLink 900AP, if that's useful info.

If we can get these sent back, I suppose I can work up the gumption to start over. This (original) stuff has worn me out. OTOH, is it just that it's newer, and therefore presumed better/higher tech, that makes you say that? Surely, any wifi I'd find wouldn't exceed the b rate...

I think that's what I've done. The problem is that it won't pass data...

RFI? Something else? It appears that at least one vendor is doing that (albeit at a grossly higher price tag) - along with a router in between

- and, while I now don't trust nearly anything I might hear from the vendor, that was his solution to the original discussion of how to achieve what I was trying to do. And, it appears that the geosat is doing what the other guy (whose recommendation I never got to test because the 2611s weren't behaving) suggested, which would allow a feed for Vonage or other similar ethernet devices looking for an ISP input. However, with Skype migrating to free POTS connections, that may be a moot point to me later...

.

I'll read that soon - I'm a bit snowed (heh. Funny use of the word in this heat here) under at the moment.

I've done most of that in the course of my prior adventures, but I'll see if I can find the current firmware. The rep had me undock the card and put it in my pcmcia slot to do the flash, as it wouldn't (at the time) do it over the NIC. I assume I should be able to do that in the NIC/cat5/breadboard connection via web interface?

Thanks. I'll report back after I've flashed it, assuming I can find the firmware. I just went to the vendor's site, and the most current firmware is 12-15-04. I can't find my original from him, but it was after that point so I presume I've got the most current. I'll still reflash...

L8R

Skip

On 22 Jun 2006 15:44:51 -0700, "Skip - Working on the boat" wrote in :

It takes a bigger box to hold both a client bridge and an access point than just a client bridge alone. If your box has extra room, then no problem, but I personally would want the smallest box I could find (to minimize weight and windage),

OK, two Senao units in one box. One needs to be flashed as a client bridge (to shore), and the other needs to be flashed as an access point (to your boat).

I have no idea what "never worked" means. Electrically dead? How do you know? If you want effective help, you need to be much more specific.

I hate to sound tiresome, but again, one Senao needs to be flashed as a client bridge, and the other Senao needs to be flashed as an access point. The firmware is different! The correct firmware has to go in each unit. You can't just assume that whatever you got was right.

Which Senao?! You need to be much more specific.

I have no idea what that really means. I need all the exact details.

Again, I have no idea what that means. Did the client bridge ever get connected? Can you talk to the client bridge through the access point?

[sigh] Still no idea what that means.

[sigh] Stop. Start over. Take it step by step, just as I wrote before. Don't rush ahead. Don't do anything else.

Not if you don't have it anymore.

g is better at getting and holding a connection than b.

[sigh] Again, I have no idea what that means. Do the step by step. Baby steps. Not all at once.

I've already explained why I think that's a bad idea. Regardless, I don't care to debate it.

If you want my help, then you need to start over and take it little step by little step. Skip the flashing step (#2) for now, and see if you can otherwise get all the way to step #5 successfully. If you run into a problem at any step, stop there and tell us the exact problem. Good luck!

p.s. I'm off early tomorrow on a long sailboat race, and probably won't be back on my computer before Sunday, or even Monday.

Hi, John, and good luck on your race. I could probably figure out which it was, as long as it is, but for now I'll just wish you the best.

Below I just try to clarify some frustrations for you; I'll do the full testing you refer to later...

Hm. As they are toggle-able between the two, should I flash both units with both sets of firmware?

Meanwhile, I'm nearly certain they have the most current firmware, but I'll do it again. (after the tests process).

I mean that they never performed as specified. They "work" in that I can interrogate them in web interface form, all the way to the point where I sat the static-dhcp choice to dhcp. I mentioned not reinstalling them in the nema just to point out that if that had any impact, it wasn't a factor. It's about the smallest possible footprint for the two units - the one on the left in the URL I provided - but I don't like the thin neoprene or whatever gasket and a big flat surface with only 6 screws, which seems to me to be an invitation to water intrusion over time. I'd much rather an o-ring or similar with tongue and groove sealing, along with a shoebox lid rather than pancake shape for better rigidity...

clip

Heh. Particularly in the case of this vendor. I'll do the separate flashings - but as Senao makes a big deal about these being able to flip from one format to the other, I can't understand how they expect to do that if the units can't hold both sets of firmware...

I tested both units as wired bridge (remember the toggle bit); neither would pass data, but otherwise (in factory default setting) would talk to my NIC in all of the configuration screens. So the answer is both of them. Since I wasn't able to make (ei)the(r) bridge work, I never went beyond that in my recent, last-ditch effort which was willing to at least try going with an ethernet direct connection (where I'd before been only willing to have a wireless solution).

If you really want the gory details, I'll post them. I have all the steps I did in this last test, as part of my documentation in the return request with Discover. But it's just working through all the different possibilities in the setup screens, and having it stop communicating with me when I went from static to dhcp mode, regardless of whatever other possibilities had been set.

No (tearing my hair out, which is *really* difficult since I have it cut to about 1/8", as I have to have tried that over 100 times in every possible configuration). Client bridge would associate with a specified SSID if I set it up that way - but would not pass data.

*EVERY* time, regardless of settings, regardless of IP and subnet twiddling to try to isolate from any computer internal settings which might offend it, after I'd individually set up the AP unit and the bridge unit (via url on my NIC), when I connected the two, IP error messages would abound, and no further communication happened.

The vendor's solution to that problem was to demand I engage a Microsoft Certified Network Professional to resolve the IP conflicts in my computer (despite this happening on computer any I've tried it on)...

Sorry I'm not being adequately clear. I just meant that my IP and subnets matched between NIC and bridge, and whether I had the NIC on specific IP or dhcp, it still would not pass data (browse or mail, tracert, ping, etc.). And when I set my NIC to dhcp, I could no longer interrogate my 192.etc bridge. When I set the bridge (in the setup screens) to dhcp, all communication stopped. Either required a button-push reset to factory default to start the process over again.

Will do, and report, step by step.

Well, if that *would* have worked, I'm beginning to believe that a voltage difference is easier to resolve than an IP conflict problem :{/)

Thanks. I'll do that. Enjoy your race!

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC

- NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Hi, John,

Hope your race was successful - I know you probably don't like coming in anything other than first - my last race we won very handily, having nailed the start and pulled away for all the rest of it...

I have two units. For clarity, even though either can be a Bridge or Access Point by toggling, we're testing just the bridge part. For further clarity, I'm identifying them as unit 1 and unit 2 (1,2 below). And just for additional clarity, I'm also testing both the 8.5dBi stick and the 5.5dBi duck (stick, duck below). These are the steps you wanted me to take:

1, stick:

Done.

Per your later instructions, waiting on that step - See also below re firmware number.

Here's how I did it, via URL interface following login:

Configuration screen 1 (the system screen) showed info only -

AP information:

Connected to SSID: non-spec

Using channel: 12

MAC address of Access Point: 444444444444

Current transmission rate (Mbits/s): 2

Current communications quality (%): 0

Bridge information: MAC address of the Bridge: 00026F37D250

Current IP address: 192.168.1.1

Bridge firmware: 2.0.0WLAN

Primary firmware: 1.1.1WLAN

Secondary firmware: 1.8.0

Results of the most recent scan

SSID MAC address Channel Signal strength (%) Mode

That (2.0) is the most recent firmware so I should not have to flash again...

Screen 2 (wireless) had lots of options but I selected only two: point to multipoint - the factory default (vs P-P) and "any" (no specific SSID) instead of the "wireless" which was default. Others were left to factory default or empty

Screen 3 (station) Stations Information about the stations that are being bridged. NOTE: You may have to re-load this page to see the current settings.

The bridge table

IP Address MAC address

192.168.1.2 0090F53FA36F

this mac does not match any that my antenna which I've been using (a Hawking USB) sees. Checking further I see that it is the address I've specified in my prior trials for my NIC. It's also the IP I've given the NIC.

Screen 4 (admin) - IP Address Mode: Static DHCP Default IP address: Default subnet mask: Default gateway: Device name: (This is optional)

I configured to static, 192..1, 255.255.255.0 default 0.0.0.0, device name blank

so far, so good.

This is where I've always derailed. But, setting the nic to dhcp:

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /release

Windows IP Configuration

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0 Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0 Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>

IPCONFIG /renew led to a black screen, blinking cursor, no action.

Trying IPCONFIG /all for some clues, as that's what has happened every other time, too:

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : NavigationLaptop Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . : Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family Gigabit Ethernet NIC Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-90-F5-3F-A3-6F Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0 Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0 Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.255

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>

Of course, trying, now, to address the unit led to :

Unable to connect

Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at 192.168.1.1.

• The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try again in a few moments.

• If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer's network connection.

• If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make sure that Firefox is permitted to access the Web.

So, no joy there. Going back up to change the variables in screens after first restoring my NIC to IP/subnets.

Changing screen 2 to Point-Point (not P-MP) and restoring "wireless" as the SSID, I try again:

Information

Information about the bridge. NOTE: You may have to re-load this page to see the current settings.

AP information: Connected to SSID: wireless

Using channel: 6

MAC address of Access Point: 02023D18D250

Current transmission rate (Mbits/s): 11

Current communications quality (%): 0

Bridge information: MAC address of the Bridge: 00026F37D250

Current IP address: 192.168.1.1

Bridge firmware: 2.0.0

WLAN Primary firmware: 1.1.1

WLAN Secondary firmware: 1.8.0

Results of the most recent scan

SSID MAC address Channel Signal strength (%) Mode

once again running through the list of MACs the Hawking sees reveals that "wireless" is the AP with the 100% strength (not surprising - it's

5 feet away with a .2w amp!) on 02023D18D250 However, as this is a bridge, my hawking (right next to the stick antenna) is seeing it. Doublechecking the information screens confirm that this unit is in Bridge mode, not AP - yet it's putting out AP info (??)

Repeating the release/renew/all after going to dhcp in the NIC:

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /release

Windows IP Configuration

IP Address for adapter Local Area Connection 3 has already been released.

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0 Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0 Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

Ethernet adapter Wireless Network Connection 25:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0 Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 0.0.0.0 Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /renew ^C C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>^X

Another hangup - no response, so I bail out.

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : NavigationLaptop Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . : Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family Gigabit Ethernet NIC Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-90-F5-3F-A3-6F Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes Autoconfiguration IP Address. . . : 169.254.98.126 Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0 Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>

And, of course, 169 won't do us any good.

going back to defined so I can change another potential parameter in the screens:

returned to P-MP, I again undo the nic IP and go to dhcp for the ipconfig:

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /release

Windows IP Configuration

IP Address for adapter Local Area Connection 3 has already been released.

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /renew ^C C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>^X

Same no-result on dhcp

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : NavigationLaptop Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . : Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family Gigabit Ethernet NIC Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-90-F5-3F-A3-6F Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes Autoconfiguration IP Address. . . : 169.254.98.126 Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.0.0 Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>

and same result on all the rest as well.

And, just for the hell of it, with the IP reset on the NIC, this:

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /release

Windows IP Configuration

The operation failed as no adapter is in the state permissible for this operation.

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /renew

Windows IP Configuration

The operation failed as no adapter is in the state permissible for this operation.

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>ipconfig /all

Windows IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : NavigationLaptop Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . : Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection 3:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8169/8110 Family Gigabit Ethernet NIC Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-90-F5-3F-A3-6F Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.2 Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0 Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . :

C:\\DOCUME~1\\REGIST~1.YOU>

As long as this single one is, I'm reluctant to inflict the other unit on you in the same fashion. I also didn't bother to try both antennas as it doesn't want to work in the most basic fashion, so trying to find a station wont show us anything...

In case I've missed something, or done something in a fashion which is counterproductive, I'll leave off here until you've reviewed it.

Thanks.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC

- NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

PS

Since I was still stoked at midnight, I played with the other unit,still with the 8.5dBi stick. It worked better than the first, in that I could actually scan and see the various APs out there.

If I set the preference to "any" (no specific SSID) it associated with one of the pay services in the area. Curiously, that wasn't the most powerful one of the pay services as rated by the strength listings - and it consistently did that despite many changes of specified and unspecified SSID.

When I set it to the one I'm using now (powered by the Hawking up on deck connected with active USB cable), "sailing router", it associated with that, and showed no other stations in the scan listings.

However, no changes occurred in my other tests attempting to get it to pass data, would not renew, either in the command line interface or the windoze "repair" function (that one eventually leading to the failure message, rather than my interrupting it as I did the command line interface) and otherwise looked just like the ones in the prior message so I didn't duplicate them here. Because I could see the stations clearly on this bridge/ap unit (set as bridge - I've not toggled between bridge and AP for many months as I've not yet made the bridge work) with the stick, I didn't bother to try the duck.

This is not encouraging for these units - and I'm getting the runaround by Discovercard. I'd sure rather send them back and start over, given the history. That two of them should fail in the same fashion makes me wonder about the suitability for the purpose.

Oh, and another curiosity: Just for grins, I reinstalled the USB antenna while the bridge was still up. Like the first unit, it broadcast "sailing router" as an AP, and I associated with it at 100% in ad hoc mode. Whether I could actually control it over wifi I didn't test as I couldn't get it do deliver data in the wired mode...

L8R

Skip, back to other boat work more related to getting this boat wet after more than a year of screwing with the wifi

I have been following your posts rather loosely and see no one seems to be coming to your rescue, so here are my two bits.

I wouldn't expect much from Engenius, nor the dealer (does it begin with k?). You are not the first to complain about Engenius' poor support. Even worse for no support is the company that makes their stuff-Senao. Support and warranty is very important with these products as many of them are so questionable. A websearch will also show other complaints about your radio and other senao products not working.

I am not exactly certain all of the equipment your using, but are you using a firewall in any of this and did you disable it when trying to "pass data"? Also you can turn on the firewall packet log functions of that firewall for the dhcp and other calls and learn alot about what is happening by examining that log.

I have had experiences similar to yours and found that it often boils down to not having a strong enough signal and/or antenna, or there is a source of interference somewhere. Still the firmware/configuration software of many of these products leaves alot to be desired.

When posting your troubleshooting try to be more exact in your language and leave out any fluff and wireless jargon, just the facts mam. I find it hard to figure out exactly what you're saying sometimes.

"Skip - Working on the boat" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:

The vendor is variously known as City Wireless, wlansolution.com, internetzones.net, or senao.us. Some guy named Basil is apparently the entirety of the outfit. He carefully misdesigned my system, provided a piece of gear which specifically didn't do what we'd asked (12V), took it back and charged me another 50 bux to get another senao unit (which won't play with the first one, which won't play at all), and refuses to take it back under any circumstances.

He managed to buffalo a non-techie at Discovercard during the first charge reversal, and - despite literally 200 pages of documentation of emails between him and me, annotated as to how it never has worked - Discovercard has declined to reinstate the charge reversal.

I'm now stuck at just trying to make a Senao 2611 CB3 Deluxe equivalent (no housing) perform in a cat5 connected condition. However, as sold, it was two of these connected by a crossover cable, one in bridge and the other in ap mode, supposedly to talk to each other, and pass data seamlessly between my laptop wifi and a remote AP. These have never worked together, collapsing in a heap of IP conflicts. These have failed to work individually with two different laptops running XP home. That, of course, has its own firewall. I have not disabled it - but my computers have operated flawlessly with other wifi functions, including VoIP, on which I have - right now - two active connections, with my mother-in-law and wife talking while I listen and multitask with occasional interjections - and anythnig else I've tried, using the desktop directional Hawking 5.5dBi connected via active USB cable..

So, if I get up the enthusiasm to hook it up yet again (it's a bit convoluted to run the gear topsides with my laptop belowdecks) I can try it with no firewall. But it won't even release/renew the connection between the computer and the 2611, so I'm not optimistic.

Heh. Evidently. My 2611 antenna is an 8.5dBi omni stick which sees all the same points my currently connected antenna does, at the same apparent strength, so I don't think it's a strength issue. The 2611s are 200mw units, so I presume it should be able to reach out and touch the AP it associates with...

However, as identified in other threads, I'm over my head here, so I prolly haven't a clue and am all wet :{/)

Hm. More evidence of being out of my depth. I thought I was doing that.

However, thanks for the suggestions. I'll see if there's any difference.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC

- NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

Hi, John,

How was the race?

John Navas wrote:

Did you see my post on the problem(s) encountered? If so, was it responsive to the request/schedule above?

I live and travel in an RV (can't take it on the water tho, course you can't drive on land :) At any rate, I have a Kyocera KR1 WAP/Router

basically uses a cell data card and passes the output to the wap/router part (can be used either wired or wireless).. Lets me use any of my laptops and PDA's and have full internet access from them when in cell range. If you only want wireless, the main unit can be put in an out of the way place (out of the weather too), and a simple inverter will do the 12vdc to 120vac it wants (unit is about $299... wall wart provides dc from ac, an elcheapo $15 one will work fine... Highly suggest you don't mess with trying to run off dc... you get nasty voltage transients when starting the engines).. Bottom line is you will get an always on traveling hotspot, and will have internet connectivety whever you are in cell range... Not quite free, but hey, you probably spent big bucks on that hole in the water! :)

On 23 Jun 2006 07:44:56 -0700, "Skip - Working on the boat" wrote in :

Thanks. It was the South Tower race from the Stockton Sailing Club to the south tower of the Golden Gate (actually YRA 16/Blackaller) and back. We did well upwind, 2nd overall, but fell into a wind hole on the way back and had to anchor against the tide, which cost us a fatal 2-1/2 hours. Still, it was a great sail. The boat was "Infinity" (Holland 47 IOR). Picture at .

Great.

"toggle-able" how?

My understanding is that there are two different firmware loads, one for client bridge mode (not router mode, not access point mode), and another for access point mode.

Let's not rush ahead. Can you verify that the client bridge unit (let's call it Senao #1) shows a valid Wi-Fi connection to an external access point (e.g., hotspot)? And what do you mean by "static-dhcp"? (Please stick to industry-standard terminology.) Is that really manual IP assignment in your computer, or are you using a DHCP server in either Senao (which you shouldn't be doing!)?

Worry about getting Senao #2 (access point) working *after* Senao #1 (client bridge) is working properly -- until you get Senao #1 working, bypass/disconnect Senao #2 and connect your computer directly to Senao #1.

Let's worry about that later. You could always seal the box with silicone.

For troubleshooting you just want computer connected directly to Senao #1 as a client bridge.

No, I want to start over from the beginning, and just focus on Senao #1.

Only relevant for configuration! Otherwise the Senao LAN (not WAN) IP address is irrelevant, since it's a *bridge*, not a router. Your computer needs to have an (a) IP + (b) subnet mask + (c) gateway address

• (d) DNS servers assigned by the remote Wi-Fi service, usually by DHCP. All the Senao will do in client bridge mode is pass that DHCP setup traffic back and forth.

How do you know the "specific IP"? Again, the IP of the Senao is irrelevant!

Of course not, because it then won't be on the same subnet! But if DHCP is working (from the remote Wi-Fi service), then the Senao *is* working!

No (repeat no) DHCP in the Senao!

The voltage probably isn't an issue -- most consumer gear will operate from a wide range of voltage.

On 25 Jun 2006 18:57:40 -0700, "Skip - Working on the boat" wrote in :

I've had a long and successful racing career, so I'm now able to dial back and enjoy a race even when I'm not on a competitive boat and/or with a competitive crew. I enjoy training new crews. Last year I took on a new to racing J/120 and got them all the way to a "bullet" in the very competitive North American championships.

Great!

Not so great -- it's best to mess with only *one* think at a time.

Doesn't that service have a valid SSID?

Huh? Aren't you configured for North American usage, which goes no higher than channel 11?

Is that faked by you or real? If real, not good.

Very slow, indicating a poor signal or interference. You want a strong signal for troublehsooting.

Not good.

Not until you get the Senao connected well to a remote Wi-Fi service.

Probably because of failing to have a good connection to remote Wi-Fi service.

Of course not -- when you go to DHCP, your NIC is no longer configured for the Senao subnet. Your computer has two modes:

1. Manual IP address on same subnet as Senao #1: can talk to Senao #1, but *nothing* else!
2. DHCP from remote Wi-Fi service: can talk to Internet through gateway (eventually), but *can't* then talk to Senao!

The only way to overcome this is with (a) dual-homed wireless adapter, which is tricky under Windows, (b) a connection manager that facilitates changing configuration profiles, or (c) with a different computers for (c.1) Senao config and (c.2) Internet access.

In any event, don't mess with anything else (e.g., Firefox) until you get DHCP working.

What's "wireless" mean? Is that the real SSID of the remote Wi-Fi service?

Good, good, good!

Not good, but may not be important.

Say what? Is this a remote Wi-Fi service or not?

I have no idea what is what in that description. You need to be much more specific! Distinguish between:

1. Senao #1 (client bridge)
2. Senao #2 (access point, but should be turned off at this point)
3. Remote Wi-Fi access point.

On 26 Jun 2006 07:20:59 -0700, "Skip - Working on the boat" wrote in :

Good. Keep this one as your client bridge (making it Senao #1).

Say what? You're running your own access point? ARRGGGHHHH! Why? How do you know it's working properly? Why not use a pay service for testing? Won't cost you anything to just get DHCP working!

I strongly disagree. I think at least one if not both of the units are working properly, and that this is cockpit error from lack of technical knowledge.

Please, please, please don't fool around like this! Just do my step by step. Don't add anything, futz with other gear, etc. Just get Senao #1 connected to a *remote* (not your own) access point on a valid channel with good signal, and then get DHCP working. Remember the bit in my prior reply about having two configurations, one (manual IP) where you can talk to the Senao but not the Internet, and another (DHCP) where you can talk to the Internet but not the Senao. Do you fully understand the why of that?

On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 22:20:30 +0000 (UTC), l wrote in :

I disagree -- this kind of Wi-Fi is mature -- it's just a bit tricky to get working if you don't have technical knowledge.

All that I've seen look to be cockpit error.

Let's just stick to getting DHCP working, which almost certainly isn't a firewall issue. If the computer can DHCP on its own, then it should be able to DHCP through the Senao.

Skip: Can this computer connect by Wi-Fi directly to a *REMOTE* Wi-Fi service with DHCP and Internet working?

Yep.

Don't think that's the issue.

Me too. [sigh]

On 27 Jun 2006 16:41:17 -0700, "Skip - Working on the boat" wrote in :

I'm guessing he thinks the problems are your fault, not the gear. The 5V hardware would have probably worked on a 12V supply.

I think you're close to getting it working, but still not following instructions carefully. Please, please, please don't do anything else, leave anything out, etc.

That should work.

I suspect that's due to misunderstandings (cockpit error) on your part.

Don't jump through hoops. Just set up a simple debug environment: Senao #1 (client bridge) with antenna connected by Ethernet to computer. First verify good *remote* (not local) Wi-Fi connection with computer configured to manual IP, and then try computer DHCP. DO NOTHING ELSE!

Irrelevant! "Stay on target, Luke, stay on target!" All you care about is confirmation in the Senao that it's connected on a valid channel with good signal and speed.

I sincerely mean no offense, but I think that's the most likely cause of the problem.

'Fraid not.

If you want my help, stick to my step by step. If you want to keep trashing around with other stuff you'll have to do it without me.

See new Wiki content:

• Can't connect to Wi-Fi client bridge and Internet at the same time

• Wi-Fi How To:Configure a Wi-Fi client bridge