Do you turn off "location access" in all the apps that don't need it?

Let me assure you that it does. However, it's not exactly in any of the maze of acronyms and protocols used by VoIP. E911 is a service provided by the VoIP service provider. I'm currently on two VoIP services and I don't know how many private Asterisk switches. The service providers all offer E911 service. The gateways generally do not. That's because the VoIP service providers are required by the FCC to provide E911 service if they are connected to the PSTN (public switched telephone network): "The FCC requires that providers of interconnected VoIP telephone services using the Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN) meet Enhanced 911 (E911) obligations. E911 systems automatically provide to emergency service personnel a 911 caller's call back number and, in most cases, location information."

E911 service is often not provided directly by the VoIP provider. Instead, an E911 gateway provider supplies the direct connection, and charges the smaller VoIP service provider some charge per line, typically about $0.80/line/month. The VoIP provider passes on the cost to the customer, typically at about $1.00/line/month. For example: VOIP 911 Service Providers

Coming real soon now will be NG911 (next generation 911), which among other things, will allow submitting emergency "calls" via VoiP, SIP, WebRTC, email, SMS text messaging, chat programs, handicap comm devices, smartphone video, images, carrier pigeon, and smoke signals. I'm told this will all be a good thing. (3:13)

At this time, there are a maze of geolocation schemes designed to provide location information for VoIP phones. Mostly, they involve either programming the users location into the instrument, or using a GPS inside the phone. Geolocation protocols are still being hashed out. Note that for NG911, altitude and building floor number are of importance. If you're the fire department, and you arrive at a structure fire in a multistory building, it's important to know the floor number.

Here's an old example of one way to do it using DHCP: "Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol Option for Coordinate-based Location Configuration Information" It's not going to be used, but does give a clue as to how it might work.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann
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Yes. However, it's tricky. The "button" only appears if you have a dual band Wi-Fi in your smartphone. It's a square box, near the upper left of the screen. However, there seems to be a bug in WiFi Analyzer that sometimes makes the square button disappear. Just tap the area where the button is suppose to be, and it will work. On this page: It appears just to the left of the 5170Mhz. When I tap it on my Google Nexus 7 tablet, a "5G" appears in the that area momentarily, and then switches to "2.4G". Ugly, but functional when needed. I submitted a bug report, but that was 2 years ago.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

of course it does.

Reply to
nospam

It does, but not in the same way as POTS. For VOIP, the number is assigned to the subscriber's device (or "adapter"), whereas a POTS number is assigned to the wire itself, without regard to the telephone devices that may be attached to it. Land lines can't be moved, but VOIP devices can. Hence Jeff's problem: a 911 call on a VOIP "line" will be directed to the call center for the location on record with the VOIP provider, rather than to the one nearest the device's actual physical location.

I think all VOIP services support 911 in this fashion, but they may not support other special numbers. For example, Ooma doesn't know how to direct a call to 311, the municipal government information number.

Reply to
Neill Massello

That's one common problem. There are others, such as custom CID (CallerID) numbers, which if misconfigured will produce erronious location data. There are other problems, which I don't want to discuss in public.

How E911 works for a VoIP service provider:

More:

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 21:34:34 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote, in passing:

That's looking like more and more of a good idea. Smart phones can do such a heck of a lot all by themselves, with neither a cellular nor a wi-fi connection, it's almost a shame to hobble their functionality by wasting their time on mere cellular telephony. Perhaps I too should liberate my Moto Droid X2 from such telephony, and let one of my older, now retired VX3300 or VX5300 LG flip-phones take over that drudgery. Cheers, -- tlvp

Reply to
tlvp

Out of maybe 30 attempts at convincing friends and associates that it's a good idea, only one person has done the same thing. It works, but has its limitations. The problem is that the big advantage was being able to activate a smartphone without a data plan and thus dramatically reduce monthly charges. That worked well until about 2 years ago, when providers such as PagePlus finally woke up and allowed activation of no data smartphones. Today, it's a somewhat dubious propositioni considering the low cost for minimal data. At this time, the big advantage is that if I lose, forget, or trash my phone, it's a simple matter to just grab another CDMA phone out of the pile (no SIM needed), punch a few buttons (*228), and my account is now on the new phone. Worst case is a phone call to PagePlus support. I can't do that with a smartphone because they require a SIM card, which would not be available if I lost, forgot, or destroyed my smartphone.

Reply to
Jeff Liebermann

Please note that Carlos talks about "emergency calls", while you talk about (E)911. 911 is a US (only? mainly?) thing. Other systems, for example the European one, are quite different.

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Reply to
Frank Slootweg

Same here. I use my smartphone for anything *but* making/receiving phone calls [1]. Calls and texts are done with a 'dumb'/feature phone, which is small and has a battery that lasts 'forever'. Right too for the job and all that jazz.

[1] Bit of a fib, because I might use it for cheap international calls using VOIP.
Reply to
Frank Slootweg

That sounds suspiciously like the process I followed in about 2008/2009 where a major North/South state highway in Kansas abruptly ended on the map, but in reality it continued all the way to the Oklahoma border. They corrected the error in about 7 months, IIRC.

Reply to
Char Jackson

Well, it is something I read on the notes from some VoIp providers that I looked. Maybe things have changed, or they are different in the USA. One reason could be that VoIp was not considered reliable enough, it did not pass the testing - as compared to POTS, I suppose.

Somewhat related. You know whatsapp? In the conditions of use it forbids usage by emergency systems. It could be a way to send photos to the emergency service to better explain what is happening.

I heard of "emergency apps", though. They send your location to somewhere. I don't know the details.

Reply to
Carlos E.R.

Then it must be my tablet is single band.

Reply to
Carlos E.R.

I suggest you research NG911 (Next Generation 911).

Dave

Reply to
Dave Higton

Well, I had Google declare the track "restricted usage" which is what it is. They wouldn't eliminate it, simply because it *does* exist. And, they wouldn't list it as 'blocked', even though it has a set of locked gates.

So, restricted useage is as good as I'm gonna get.

They *said* they won't map anyone to use that road *unless* the location is

*on* that road.

It kind of makes sense, so I didn't fight them, as they seemed to be wanting to do the right thing, within "their" rules of how they do things.

As I recall, it was all fixed and done in a couple of weeks.

Reply to
Horace Algier

That's how "I" would do it, but the GIS people expressly told me it was they who give the maps out. Of course, there is only one guy in the county GIS office, and he doesn't even answer his phone most of the time, so he may have been exaggerating his importance.

However, the police/sheriff *do* get their maps from the county GIS office, as they are the ones who clued me in to the error in the first place.

Reply to
Horace Algier

I have quite a few friends at both HQs in Mountainview and Cupertino, but over time, their ability to do special things for me has waned.

Either that, or I lost my power to do things for them in the San Jose HQ once I retired, which is probably half the story.

:)

Reply to
Horace Algier

Speaking of a "botched surveying job", not too far from me is a good friend on land which has adjacent land which had been unoccupied because the first few surveys didn't show the driveway to hit the road without crossing over a few feet of open space.

Then the owner of the landlocked property tried to strong arm the two neighbors to the side, for a prescriptive easement, but that failed (dunno why but I think because they bought the property cheap *knowing* it was landlocked and the judge said the people were willing to *sell* the rights to the guy but he didn't want to pay the price).

Finally, the owner figured out the *correct* plan, which was to come up with his own "special" survey which gave six feet to *each* of the neighbors and took that six feet away from the open space (moving the six feet to the back of the properties instead of to the front) and *all* the three neighbors were happy.

Apparently, the *last* survey registered wins, and since everyone won six feet, they were all happy not to have to commission a competing survey.

One can only presume the open space doesn't know about this surveyor's shenanigan, as the driveway was eventually built.

Reply to
Horace Algier

I'm in one of those 'boundary' areas myself, although I'm covered by more than one fire jurisdiction.

I think, from memory, the *land* is covered by calfire while the *home* is covered by the local town fire department.

Weird.

BTW, out here, *every* house must have its own fire hydrant on the property.

Do you have the same rules?

Reply to
Horace Algier

Heh heh ... Jeff ... I hike these hills a lot, and I've seen big blue plastic sheets with an X in white in the middle nailed to the ground.

I have photos of them, but I'd have to dig them out and I'm sure you've seen the same things all over.

SO that's what they must have been doing, which is what I would have thought, since there's no other reason for a blue and white X to be on the ground in the middle of nowhere.

Reply to
Horace Algier

They fixed the errors I told them about in roughly a week or two (as I recall). So maybe they're getting better ... or maybe it just depends on the "local volunteer" who makes the initial decision...

Or maybe it depends on the google employee who has to approve the change.

Or maybe it depends on the scope of the change.

Dunno... mine was no longer than two weeks as I recall, so, I consider that "fast enough".

Reply to
Horace Algier

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