Qwest disconnected our 800 number [Telecom]

I'm sorry you're having trouble. But there are several things that I don't understand, perhaps you or other readers can explain how things work these days and we can all learn together.

1) How do you know there merely isn't a breakdown with your service, as opposed to an intentional disconnection of service? You said you had no notification; so maybe it's a mechanical difficulty? Maybe a wire was cut inside your building? 2) Isn't repair service open 24/7? I presume your 800 number is for a business and as such, don't they have personnel on duty off hours? That is to say, if a car hits a pole and knocks out my phone service at 6 pm on a Friday night, am I and my neighbors out of luck until at least Monday morning when their offices reopen? 3) Just out of curiosity, why was this "one of your fears"? Did you have other troubles with your service? 4) With 800 services, aren't there normally two providers involved-- the local telephone company which supplies the loop to the Central Office, and the long distance company that actually handles the call? For 800 service, does one need a conventional local phone line plus a toll carrier? 5) Presuming you are a business, it's been two weeks since 4/10. How did you ultimately find out the line wasn't working? Is the line physically dead--no incoming or outgoing calls of any sort, or does any of it partially work? 6) Our 800 numbers portable from one toll carrier to another? Is that physically and legally possible?

While we're on the subject of 800 numbers, are they still important for business? So many local subscribers today have unlimited long distance in their land line or cell phone, or their toll service is so cheap that it doesn't matter as it did years ago. Usually businesses advertise both a regular number along with their 800 number.

(The only time it does matter to me if I'm calling a business that keeps me on hold for a while, then I don't like it and rather it be on their dime.)

***** Moderator's Note *****

800 numbers have been portable for a while now: advertisers demanded the capability as soon as the competitive long-distance market got going. In fact, the system predates Local Number Portability.

800 numbers are important for business because it's a great cost-saver to have the caller's ANI info sent to you with every call: it allows sophisticated call-center routing based on stored data about the individual caller and the area where the call is originating.

Consider the advantages of knowing the following _before_ you decide to answer the call:

• Whether the caller has recently made a purchase

• Average household income for the caller's area

• The average profit per purchase from callers in that area

... and anything else the database has on either the particular number that originated the call, or the area surrounding the exchange that serves that number. Trust me: it's a powerful and effective marketing tool, allowing real-time routing decisions that shunt customers with a low profit potential in to the voice-response system, and likely high-dollar buyers to the "A Team" sales staff.

Bill Horne Temporary Moderator

Please put [Telecom] at the end of your subject line, or I may never see your post! Thanks!

We have a new address for email submissions: telecomdigestmoderator atsign telecom-digest.org. This is only for those who submit posts via email: if you use a newsreader or a web interface to contribute to the digest, you don't need to change anything.

Wow, I think I've stepped back 30 years when we used to have to read the WATS meters in the central office :-)

Toll free service is totally different than the concept of a dedicated line that you're describing. A toll-free number is translated today and can be delivered in a couple of different ways. First, and easiest for us "smaller guys" is a RING TO number. My 800 number rings to my main number. I don't get ANI, I get CID. If it's blocked, I get "Out of Area" or "Unknown" or "Private", the same as if they dialed my number directly. My service isn't expensive and I could shop around, but I pay $2 per month for the 800 number and 4.25 cents per minute for the calls. My bill is seldom over $8.

Larger companies, or certain customers can get ANI delivery. A huge software/hardware seller, an airline, someone with T-1 service and the aforementioned dedicated lines, can get ANI service. Like 911, it's delivered no matter what the status of your CID is, but it costs more than my budget allows.

It depends on how your Toll Free number was disconnected and who has control. We do business with a CLEC that quits on Friday at 5 and comes back in on Monday at 9! Needless to say, we don't port 800 numbers to them.

Yep. Mine is that way.

If I"m not lazy, I try to remember to test my 800 number weekly. I open the bill and look at the traffic once a month. I learned the hard way.

Assuming there's not a billing dispute, you can force the number back into your possession. A certain company will drag their feet, but you still can get the number via this method.

It's absolutely important. I don't have long holding times, but I still want my customers to call me and I want to make it as easy as possible to call me instead of my competitor. If you can't make long distance calls on your line because you haven't PICC's a carrier, or you could call somebody for the price of a local call, sometimes free, what would you choose? My main phone number sits in a town of about

50K main stations, but the greater metro area is about 500K. Yeah, I'll take door #2 :-)

Carl

I used to have Network Plus for my 800 service. They delivered ANI data as CLID data. They followed the proper thinking, since I was paying for the call I sure as hell deserved to know who was calling.

.......

I *used* to be in the call-center system support business, and there are many tools that can be used to essentially "tune" the call center to be able to meet an anticipated demand with a set answering time.

As you said, it is a calculated decision to have the incoming calls wait a certain period before answer, and basically the shorter you want to make that time the more it is going to cost you in all sorts of resources.

If a business has a steady demand then it is a relatively simple task that only needs minimal ongoing monitoring to ensure that you are still meeting your criteria over time (and not wasting resources by exceeding that criteria). If the business can have peaks of demand (emergency services, places like ticket agencies, airlines etc) then it becomes far more tricky to ensure that you keep standards acceptable while not wasting too much money. Get it wrong in either direction and the consequences can be significant.

And, the calling party "sure as hell" deserves to know you will be seeing his number, even though he has elected CLID blocking.

To be fair to both parties, a no-charge recording should announce to the caller that, unless he hangs up immediately, the called party will capture his number.

But, the "telcos" wouldn't like that, and I suspect neither would you.

***** Moderator's Note *****

There must be something in the air today: it seems that half the contributors want to go to war with the other half!

Bill Horne Temporary Moderator

Please put [Telecom] at the end of your subject line, or I may never see your post! Thanks!

We have a new address for email submissions: telecomdigestmoderator atsign telecom-digest.org. This is only for those who submit posts via email: if you use a newsreader or a web interface to contribute to the digest, you don't need to change anything.

[Clayon:]

In the old days, the phone co always announced the name--as the caller gave it to them--for collect calls. I don't know if they would've given out the number even if asked, though I think it showed up on the bill.

This illustrates yet another problem in which telephone service is DIFFERENT than other products and services, and the outside rules aren't around. That is, if I go into a store to buy a quart of milk, the price is by law clearly mounted on the shelf. Some advocates feel the milk carton itself should be marked with the price.

However, if I make a toll call from a phone, I have no idea of what it will cost, and these days no way to find out. In the old Bell System you would call the operator, someone would answer promptly, and give you the rates. But newcomers like MCI didn't have operators so too bad, and in today's "competitive" world no one wants to provide that service. Further, they'd rather you not know until it's too late how much a call cost.

In the old days the rules were simple and easily published in the phone book. They did not change very often, so once learned they lasted for many years. But today the rules vary greatly by carrier and circumstance and are constantly changing. Further, as mentioned, there is NO easy way to find them out. (Web pages are lousy at this sort of thing, often out of date or confusing, and no humans to call.)

So today a caller might assume their call was blocked, but they'd have no way of knowing it can't be blocked. (Please rememer that typical phone users do not have the time nor interest to study ever changing policies.)

New question: How do I "force the 800 number back" ?

Answers to questions:

The 800 number is being forwarded to our landline - the ANI information is quite interesting, however we have no way to access it. Perhaps via a voip provider would provide this information at little additional cost. Need to check into this.

All other systems are working properly, the landline works in and out.

I don't have access to the plant test number, until now we dialed the number and it was answered by my staff, in other words, "it just worked"

All bills have been paid, I discussed this with billing last night, they say I have an $0.82 open credit on the account - so, I am overpaid.

I spoke with three Qwest people on Friday, each stated it was disconnected, no one could say why it was disconnected.

Only reason I fear this is due to the wild wild west nature of the phone business today. used to be, you would call ATT, they would take care of you, if they violated your rights you could go to the PUC. Today there are so many carriers and governing authorities, I have no idea if Qwest will be in business next week, if they fail, who do I call to secure my numbers etc. Call me paranoid, but I don't like it.

I don't know how other 800 services work, in my case Qwest simply forwards all calls to a local land line.

Our 800 number isn't frequently used, therefore we didn't know it was out of service.

Comment regarding "There must ... half the contributors want to go to war with the other half!" That is the way of this group - just look at the top post vs bottom post issue. Finally got so bad that the list software forces bottom posting.

***** Moderator's Note *****

A couple of added questions from me:

I'm still not clear on the issue you're writing about: you've asked how to "force" an 800 number back to you, but your other remarks infer that the line was disconnected. What's the current status of your

800 number? Is some other company using it?

Bill Horne Temporary Moderator P.S. Actually, there isn't any list software: it's just me. _I_ force bottom posting for the sake of clarity and readability.

Please put [Telecom] at the end of your subject line, or I may never see your post! Thanks!

We have a new address for email submissions: telecomdigestmoderator atsign telecom-digest.org. This is only for those who submit posts via email: if you use a newsreader or a web interface to contribute to the digest, you don't need to change anything.

800 service has been around for many years. Was the ANI always provided to 800 businesses? Back in the early days of 800 service ANI wasn't universal--some exchanges still had ONI. I can't believe they'd bother with ONI on a toll free call.

When did ANI become available for 800 customers?

Indeed, I recall having problems dialing an 800 number, so instead of

1+ I dialed 0+. The equipment didn't route me to an operator, but just put the call straight through (which meant for me the same problem). It did likewise with 555 directory assistance since that was a free call back then.

I don't know what showed up on the bill, but in Enterprise service days, the operator would not announce the caller, just put the all through and reverse the charges without asking.

As an aside, there is one big weakness about identifying specific customers by their ANI: customers are not always calling from their home phone. Many customers could be calling from their work phone, a pay phone, a neighbor's house, a motel, or of course their cell phone.

[[.. sneck ]]

ALWAYS.

In early days it was delivered "with the billing" -- 'real-time' data delivery was not available.

,

What I mean is if we didn't get our 800# back, what is the procedure for forcing someone to give it back to us. In this case all is well that ends well, but what if six months had passed and Qwest had no reason to cancel our service but did so anyway. Well, I'll want it back and I suspect you'd want your number back.

So the question is what is procedure for getting the 800# back - surely there must be some higher authority - similar to ICANN and so documented here:

I don't agree that the calling party has now, or has ever, had the right to ANI blocking when calling a toll-free number. If he wants to use CLID blocking, then let him call the company's local number, or choose to do business with a company that doesn't use toll-free numbers.

If I understood Mr. Spade correctly, what he is saying (and I agree) is that callers should _know_ their own number is being transmitted no matter what--even if they try to block it. I suspect most people are not aware of that fact, and think they have privacy when actually they don't.

In the old days people recording telephone calls were required to put a beep tone on the line every 15 seconds (some states may still require it, but most don't). But most companies announce when they answer the phone that the call may be monitored or recorded. The point is that people are being notified.

Perhaps there should be recording played announcing that the call block won't be working for that call--when and only when--someone (1) has call blocking or dials for it and (2) they're calling an 800 number. But I bet some selfish interests would oppose that.

***** Moderator's Note *****

I don't think of the 800 number ANI tranmission as being "selfish". It's a system that predates caller id, and it has _never_ been hidden or secret. Those who pay for 800 numbers do so in accordance with the tariffs, and those tariffs are availalbe for anyone to read.

What you're advocating is, and always will be, impossible: you can't protect consumers from their tendency to assume that there is such a thing as a free lunch. I'd say "The truth is out there", but that would imply that someone was trying to hide it. The facts are out there, and always have been for those who choose to seek them.

Bill Horne Temporary Moderator

Please put [Telecom] at the end of your subject line, or I may never see your post! Thanks!

We have a new address for email submissions: telecomdigestmoderator atsign telecom-digest.org. This is only for those who submit posts via email: if you use a newsreader or a web interface to contribute to the digest, you don't need to change anything.

I have to respectfully disagree, although my post may have been worded poorly. Allow me to rephrase it:

I think if someone dials the block code (1167?) then an 800 number, they should get a recording saying their number cannnot be blocked for

800 calls. I don't see that as being any burden to provide.

I also think that some companies who offer customers 800 service might not want their customers to know about ANI--that is, they would be happy if their customers were left in the dark and thought their number was blocked when in fact it wasn't. I think that is a bad business practice, but many companies do not want their customers to know stuff.

I disagree with the statement, "you can't protect consumers from their tendency to assume that there is such a thing as a free lunch", _especially_ when it comes to telephone services. As said, when one goes into a store, the price of an item is clearly marked. The ingredients of a food item or raw materials of a garment are stated, so the consumer has some idea of what they're getting.

In contrast, with telephone service, there is no label at all. You dial a number and you get connected. Further, and this is important, for decades consumers could make safe assumptions about telephone calls since the technology and public policy were static, relatively simple, uniformly easy to ask about, and published.

I'm sorry if this gets people upset, but the business of ridiculous charges to unspecting callers by alternative operator services was/is a blatant ripoff. In the old days an operator handled call had a fee, but not a ridiculously high one. Some people "in the know" knew how to dial special prefix codes, get calling cards, etc., but most people did not and were badly burned, and they didn't find out until the bill came. There was no way for a user to find out charges in advance, and that was part of the ripoff. It amazed me that some "in the know" people defended that practice. I guess back when it was first proposed to put ingredients on food labels some people objected to that too.

I also disagree with the statement, "The facts are out there, and always have been for those who choose to seek them." In today's telecommuncation world the facts are _not_ there. You can't dial zero and get a rate or assistance anymore. You can't get through to a "service rep" for many carriers anymore. You can't look up the rules in the phone book. The terms and conditions of modern services are very complex and not easily understood, and constantly changing with little or no notice. They take advantage of the fact that consumers are busy people and don't have time to call the carrier, wait on hold, listen to sales pitches, and finally discuss questions.

Imagine you went to your supermarket and no prices were given. You would not know your costs until the bill came a month later. Sure, you could wait in line and ask at the customer service desk and they'll tell you, but that takes up time most shoppers, esp with screaming kids in tow, don't have. You get worn down.

Today's communciations carriers do likewise. They wear consumers down.